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Tonal Languages Require More Talent? | ||
Tags: Talent | Asian Languages | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| jazzboy.bebop Senior Member Norway norwegianthroughnove Joined 5409 days ago 439 posts - 800 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Norwegian | Message 9 of 40 30 April 2012 at 9:54am | IP Logged | ||
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I disagree, gradual improvement through repetition (and practice) is enough. I am
speaking from the stand point of a musician. When I started playing music about 10 years ago, I didn't really understand what a melody was nor how to reproduce it. Through practice it became easier to the point where, given a guide tone, I could listen to a melody and simply transcribe it. Developing an ear for musical melody and harmony is not so different from learning a tonal language. The trick is knowing how to practice and improve. I am not musically gifted, I didn't even listen to music until I was 13 but have reached a relatively advanced level in acoustic guitar and bass guitar through proper practice. We're all capable of learning to do this kind of thing, it is just finding the right approach which is the problem. Having studied a bit of Mandarin, I've found Chinese Pod and Assimil good to use as you won't have to deal with fast speech from the start. Once you get used to identifying tones easily in single words you will gradually develop your ability to appreciate the melodic content of a sentence and thus understand it, assuming you know the vocabulary. Edit: I should add that learning tonal languages may be tricky at first for people with little training in really noticing and producing melody but it is definitely learnable. Edited by jazzboy.bebop on 30 April 2012 at 10:12am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| maydayayday Pentaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5210 days ago 564 posts - 839 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, SpanishB2, FrenchB2 Studies: Arabic (Egyptian), Russian, Swedish, Turkish, Polish, Persian, Vietnamese Studies: Urdu | Message 10 of 40 30 April 2012 at 6:26pm | IP Logged | ||
I hoped that having a musical skill - limited though mine is - would help. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jazzboy.bebop Senior Member Norway norwegianthroughnove Joined 5409 days ago 439 posts - 800 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Norwegian | Message 11 of 40 30 April 2012 at 6:43pm | IP Logged | ||
It definitely will. If you can at least identify the tone of words pronounced in isolation you can train yourself further. Only people who are medically tone deaf wouldn't be able to do that. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Quinn Senior Member United States Joined 6314 days ago 134 posts - 186 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, Italian, Spanish | Message 12 of 40 30 April 2012 at 11:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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Native speakers of tonal languages seem to acquire them just fine. Are they all, for some reason, more linguistically talented than the rest of us?
I suspect that, as with most things, it's not so much a matter of "talent" as a matter of work. Edited by Quinn on 30 April 2012 at 11:02pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6588 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 13 of 40 30 April 2012 at 11:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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They get exposure at a very young age.
I definitely think more talent is needed. Those who have it just take it for granted that everyone can listen to a singer and hear where he sounds off, for example. I'm sure if I had enough interest in a tonal language I'd be able to reach advanced fluency, though. But it would be very difficult. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4859 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 14 of 40 01 May 2012 at 12:32am | IP Logged | ||
All sources I have read so far about tonal languages say that a musical ear is not required. You have to remember that tones are just relative to each other (high, low, rising, falling) and don't have a universal pitch like musical notes. Practicing tones and practicing singing are two completely different things. I think learning tones is no different from learning other phonetic features that are absent from one's native language. It takes time, practice and awareness to get used to them. Lack of awareness is usually the problem when it comes to pronunciation, not lack of talent. Edited by druckfehler on 01 May 2012 at 12:32am 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6588 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 15 of 40 01 May 2012 at 1:57am | IP Logged | ||
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I've had serious trouble even trying to pronounce English words with the necessary tone (high fall, low fall, fall-rise etc) at advanced English phonetics classes. I'm absolutely sure that my "talent" here is below average.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4859 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 16 of 40 01 May 2012 at 2:26am | IP Logged | ||
Same here. I generally find prosody difficult, but attribute that to a lack of focus on this area of pronunciation. The advantage with Chinese and other tonal languages is that you're instructed in the tonal component right from the start, while I've not come across a class that taught the prosody of a non-tonal language apart from mentioning whether questions use a falling or rising tone. In contrast, I have no problem with musical pitch. I can recognise when it's off and I hit the right notes when I sing. 6 persons have voted this message useful |
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