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Mike’s Italian Progression

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gravityguy
Groupie
United Kingdom
Joined 4542 days ago
56 posts - 77 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish

 
 Message 17 of 25
06 July 2012 at 12:53pm | IP Logged 
dampingwire wrote:
gravityguy wrote:

Along with the above, I have begun creating a parallel text for the first book of Harry
Potter. It is hugely time consuming but I'm really hoping that it pays dividends once I
start reading it.


I brought that one home from the library a while ago for my daughter to read. She's
been
through the English versions (+ audio books) so often that she pretty much has them all
memorised. I remember seeing "babbano" and thinking WTH? until I twigged :-)



I've read all of the English ones so have a pretty good knowledge of them, I certainly
don't have them memorised though!

Babbano; yes I suppose this word wouldn't be found in your standard Italian dictionary,
but I'm sure its a word that every Italian HP fan will know though! :)
_______________________________

OK, so I have now finished CD 6 and will hopefully have finished CD 7 by the end of the
day. I have also spent most of last night and some of this morning creating the Harry
Potter parallel text, which I am glad to say is now finished! I have also found the
audiobooks for the first 2 HP novels for free on youtube. I can now have a go at the LR
method when I have some extra time available.
1 person has voted this message useful



gravityguy
Groupie
United Kingdom
Joined 4542 days ago
56 posts - 77 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish

 
 Message 18 of 25
09 July 2012 at 12:43pm | IP Logged 
OK, well it's been a few days since I updated my log but I have been busy listening to
Michel Thomas and I didn't waste the weekend away procrastinating like I normally
would.

I have now finished the foundation course and am 3 tracks away from being half way
through the advanced course. What I have found with the advanced course is that it
feels a lot smoother now that the 2 students seem to have a good idea of the language.
I feel a lot more relaxed with this one than I did in the foundation. This being said
though, even though I am almost halfway through the advanced, I am getting a lot of his
questions wrong and I am struggling to remember all of the vocabulary. At some points I
think that this particular phrase has never been taught but then I look through the
transcript for the foundation course and there it is! How did I miss that?? Example is
the ending -mene, I don't remember that being taught but it was on CD 8. Some things
definitely haven't been taught like 'questo quello' which is a little distracting - how
come they know these words and I don't? I would definitely say that the students on the
advanced course seem to know a hell of a lot more than I do which is a little demoralising. Is it that I am just no good at remembering what is being taught whereas
the students do?

I'm not actually sure whether to go back a couple of CD's, i.e. redo the last CD of the
foundation course as I do appear to have missed stuff and I can't remember a lot of
verb endings. I think I will see how I feel after I finish the CD that I am on now. I
did quite a lot yesterday though so maybe it was to much for my brain to handle.

I'm still also listening to the Italian pop album in my car and the words are
definitely getting clearer the more I listen to it. I think towards the end of the week
I will start listening to them at the same time as reading the lyrics along with the
English translation.

I really want to get the MT course finished so that I can get onto my assimil course
but at the same time I don't want to just rush through the MT course as I feel it would
be pointless doing the course in the first place if I did this.


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numerodix
Trilingual Hexaglot
Senior Member
Netherlands
Joined 6788 days ago
856 posts - 1226 votes 
Speaks: EnglishC2*, Norwegian*, Polish*, Italian, Dutch, French
Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin

 
 Message 19 of 25
09 July 2012 at 6:15pm | IP Logged 
I too am convinced that the students are getting some off-tape prepping. Either that or
the recording was originally much longer and they did a lot of cutting, because you come
upon discontinuities at times.

Anyway, there's no need to insist upon finishing MT before you start Assimil, you can do
them in parallel, the sky will not fall. :)
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gravityguy
Groupie
United Kingdom
Joined 4542 days ago
56 posts - 77 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish

 
 Message 20 of 25
09 July 2012 at 9:07pm | IP Logged 
numerodix wrote:
I too am convinced that the students are getting some off-tape
prepping. Either that or
the recording was originally much longer and they did a lot of cutting, because you
come
upon discontinuities at times.

Anyway, there's no need to insist upon finishing MT before you start Assimil, you can
do
them in parallel, the sky will not fall. :)


Yes, they just seem to know far to much considering they have only done the MT
foundation course (although in the live environment).

With regards to doing both at the same time, I think that is exactly what I will do. I
now can't help thinking that it may have been a little better if I had done the
advanced course a little way into assimil. I definitely think I will need to do a
review session of the advanced course a little further down the line as there just
seems to be way to much info for it to just stick.

I'm also going to try to use pimsleur at the same time.
1 person has voted this message useful



dampingwire
Bilingual Triglot
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 4670 days ago
1185 posts - 1513 votes 
Speaks: English*, Italian*, French
Studies: Japanese

 
 Message 21 of 25
09 July 2012 at 10:11pm | IP Logged 
gravityguy wrote:
How did I miss that?? Example is the ending -mene, I don't remember
that being taught but it was on CD 8.


I think you're allowed to forget a little bit every now and then :-)

gravityguy wrote:
Some things
definitely haven't been taught like 'questo quello' which is a little distracting - how
come they know these words and I don't?


I don't recall anything on the Japanese MT Foundation course that just suddenly
appeared. I've not tried the Advanced course so I can't comment on that one. I do see
that MT has (apart from renaming the courses :-)) got a "masterclass" for Italian (but
not Japanese :-(). That, I think, is a bunch of extra vocabulary (but that's 2nd hand
from the internet ...). Perhaps that's where some of the extras come from.

That said, I'm not sure how MT could manage to avoid questo, questa... quello,
quella... in even a brief course.

As for doing it over and over, I can't imagine a good reason for not doing that. I'd
probably still be repeating the Japanese MT foundation if it weren't back at the
library. I've certainly repeated Pimsleur and I'll no doubt go through it again. I have
plenty of other audio now, but I've not found anything that requires quite as much
structured listener participation as MT and Pimsleur.

I also can't think of a good reason not to work through N different courses at once (as
long as you have the time). I find audio good for building listening skills, but I find
it even better for building listening skills when I have some clue about the vocabulary
and grammar. For that I use books and memrise.com and so on.

1 person has voted this message useful



gravityguy
Groupie
United Kingdom
Joined 4542 days ago
56 posts - 77 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish

 
 Message 22 of 25
10 July 2012 at 11:59am | IP Logged 
dampingwire wrote:


gravityguy wrote:
Some things
definitely haven't been taught like 'questo quello' which is a little distracting - how
come they know these words and I don't?


I don't recall anything on the Japanese MT Foundation course that just suddenly
appeared. I've not tried the Advanced course so I can't comment on that one. I do see
that MT has (apart from renaming the courses :-)) got a "masterclass" for Italian (but
not Japanese :-(). That, I think, is a bunch of extra vocabulary (but that's 2nd hand
from the internet ...). Perhaps that's where some of the extras come from.

That said, I'm not sure how MT could manage to avoid questo, questa... quello,
quella... in even a brief course.

As for doing it over and over, I can't imagine a good reason for not doing that. I'd
probably still be repeating the Japanese MT foundation if it weren't back at the
library. I've certainly repeated Pimsleur and I'll no doubt go through it again. I have
plenty of other audio now, but I've not found anything that requires quite as much
structured listener participation as MT and Pimsleur.

I also can't think of a good reason not to work through N different courses at once (as
long as you have the time). I find audio good for building listening skills, but I find
it even better for building listening skills when I have some clue about the vocabulary
and grammar. For that I use books and memrise.com and so on.


I've been through the transcript to see where it was that I missed it. It wasn't there.
The only words I recall being taught that relate to 'what' was 'che', 'cosa' and 'cio
che' (don't know how to use accents on this keyboard). Maybe it was there somewhere and
I didn't hear it but i am assuming not as it isn't in the transcript.

With regards to repeating MT courses, I started a thread (http://how-to-learn-any-
language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32910&PN=1&TPN=1) regarding the same and the
majority vote seemed to go against repeating MT material. Personally though, I think
there is so much grammar involved with MT that not all of it is going to go in in just
one go. Certainly for me anyway. I think it will be beneficial for me to redo the
course again at a later date, but just remembering that it is the grammar that is
important and not the sentences themselves.

I have the audiobooks for the Harry Potter books on my smartphone now which I have
sarted listening to. I have also been listening to cheesy Italian pop, both of which I
have found beneficial. The former because I have a fairly good knowledge of HP and the
latter because the more I listen to the music, the more I differentiate between the
different words. It is no longer just one long sound.

Last night I only actually managed 1 track from the MT course as I was just to tired to
listen. I sat there and my mind kept wandering as I was so tired. I will consider
yesterday as my official day off. Tonight I wilf finish CD 2 of MT and I will do the
first lesson in either Assimil or Pimsleur (maybe both if I have the time)
1 person has voted this message useful



gravityguy
Groupie
United Kingdom
Joined 4542 days ago
56 posts - 77 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish

 
 Message 23 of 25
10 July 2012 at 2:50pm | IP Logged 
Quote taken from a post in another thread that was started by another OP but that has a
lot of motivational advice; something I will probably need when the going gets tough;
last paragraph in particular.

iguanamon wrote:
...When you are learning with a partner who is a native speaker it can
be a really good thing or a bad thing depending upon how you approach it. Just be
aware. He may also look at whatever course or program you are following and tell you
"Nobody actually speaks like that", "we don't use such formal language", "don't bother
learning that, it's barely used", "ïf you use this course, you won't speak Spanish",
etc and he'll be absolutely correct- NO course will take you to native
level. Still, you have to start somewhere and it's all about constructing a foundation
upon which you will later build your structure. A native speaker knows his/her language
intimately but has never had the experience of having to learn it as a foreign language
or teach it as a foreign language. Once you have a bit of a foundation, then you can
use your boyfriend to help you sound more authentic.

You won't start off sounding like a chica rapping with your homegirls in East LA,
and, that's ok. Learning a language takes time, patience, perseverance, and practice,
practice, practice. Don't give up when the going gets tough. Keep at it, every day. Do
something in the language every day even when you don't really feel like it,
even if just for five minutes. It's about making learning a habit. Make it a habit and
you'll get there. I'm not saying you can learn Spanish in five minutes a day. You
should try to devote at least an hour of your time a day. But when you start to get
discouraged or "bored", keep at it, persevere. Making it a habit means it'll be harder
to quit. Quitting is the one thing that will guarantee you will never learn Spanish.
Avoid quitting and you will succeed!

1 person has voted this message useful



gravityguy
Groupie
United Kingdom
Joined 4542 days ago
56 posts - 77 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish

 
 Message 24 of 25
10 July 2012 at 5:57pm | IP Logged 
Another motivational post from the same thread as the last.

emk wrote:
I had a friend who was a bit of a couch potato. He wasn't an athlete.
In fact, he wasn't even in shape. But one day, he decided to hike the Appalachian
Trail. The AT starts in Georgia and runs 2,184 miles north to Maine. My friend bought
some boots and a backpack, flew to Georgia, and started walking. At first it was pretty
hard, but he just kept putting one foot in front of the other, making some progress
every day. Six months later, he was standing on top of Katahdin in Maine. He didn't
need to be an natural athlete, or own expensive gear. He just needed to keep walking.
And even if he had been a natural athlete, there was no way he could have completed the
trail quickly—in fact, lots of natural athletes fail, because they give up. Everybody
has to hike the same 2,184 miles, and nobody's going to do that in 3 weeks, not matter
how good they are. Learning Spanish will be the same way: You don't need natural
talent, or genius-level intelligence, or a 6-year-old's brain. You just need to keep
going. If I could give you one piece of advice, it's this: Go buy a "year at a glance"
calendar and a red magic marker. Hang it on your wall where you can't miss it. Every
day you study Spanish, mark the day in red. Try to build a nice, long line of red days.
If you can put in 20 to 60 minutes a day for 6 months, you'll be able to hold a basic
conversation in Spanish with your boyfriend. If you spend a few hundred hours after
that speaking with him, reading books, and watching TV, you'll be able to hold an
intelligent conversation with some fluency.


Edited by gravityguy on 10 July 2012 at 5:59pm


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