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Repeated passive exposure becomes active? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4707 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 9 of 20 07 July 2012 at 12:53am | IP Logged | ||
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They help, but I find passive exposure only works at the point where you can fluently
read any article and all the unknowns can be guessed from context. This works for me in French, but only because I already speak enough French to understand the point of texts and books. It's not a substitute for anything. But for me, the only thing that's improved my French speaking is speaking French (and mutatis mutandis this also goes for everything else I've learned or am learning). 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6597 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 10 of 20 07 July 2012 at 1:47am | IP Logged | ||
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You don't need to SPEAK french in order to understand texts ;) You need to understand it or use a parallel text efficiently.
An interesting situation is when there's a lack of balance between your reading/listening and speaking. In my experience, doing still more reading will bring improvement to your active knowledge. For me that's actually the desirable situation in language learning. I don't want to speak for the sake of it so I prefer to do it when I can already understand the replies that don't go along the lines of a textbook dialogue. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| LaughingChimp Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4699 days ago 346 posts - 594 votes Speaks: Czech* | Message 11 of 20 07 July 2012 at 2:23pm | IP Logged | ||
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Yes. There is actually some evidence that your brain is constatnly trying to predict what will come next, so you are actually training active use as well, even when you're just listening.
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| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5766 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 12 of 20 07 July 2012 at 6:56pm | IP Logged | ||
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It depends on whether you practice your active skills. If you don't, it's unlikely your brain will invest the extra effort of making acquired items you can recognize and so comprehend accessible to the parts exclusively used by language production - your fine motor skills, for example.
Once again, I'm too lazy to look for the study that made me think that way. If anyone cares, if I remember correctly it showed that there is mirrer neuron activation involved in the comprehension of speech which includes some, but not all areas used for speech production, and one of the areas only used in production was in the motor cortex. Either way, it seems to fit with my own observations; when I *could* use an item in speech because it's relevant to my interaction with conversation partners and because it is not too far above my current level, transfer to (shaky) active knowledge just happens. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| BartoG Diglot Senior Member United States confession Joined 5447 days ago 292 posts - 818 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Italian, Spanish, Latin, Uzbek | Message 13 of 20 09 July 2012 at 2:36am | IP Logged | ||
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I think there's maybe another distinction lurking here: exposure vs. creation. I've recently been playing with Sumerian, a language I'll probably have little cause to speak anytime soon. But I've been copying texts in a sort of lazy scriptorium fashion. I have found that the act of reading the text aloud, vocalizing as I transcribe and reading aloud again brings the text alive, but I'm not creating any language of my own. However, when I skim new texts with familiar phrases, the whole phrases come to me, as opposed to me having to decipher character by character. And I'm sure at this point I could string together known fragments to create new sentences and short texts, though I wouldn't be able to create a story of my own devising. Based on this experience, I would say there's a question of how actively you can engage a text that you are working with passively. I don't think it's enough to allow you to speak a language on your own, but I think it might be enough to develop a feeling for a language - in the sense of feeling the meaning behind the text, not just having a general idea how it works.
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| MarcoDiAngelo Tetraglot Senior Member Yugoslavia Joined 6447 days ago 208 posts - 345 votes Speaks: Serbian*, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Thai, Polish | Message 14 of 20 09 July 2012 at 11:31pm | IP Logged | ||
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I strongly believe it does, but under the condition that you understand most of what is being said and that you have already mastered the pronunciation. Shadowing is also tremendously helpful, and if you know how to do it, even shadowing in your mind. Edited by MarcoDiAngelo on 10 July 2012 at 9:08am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Jumpman Jr. Diglot Newbie Canada howtostudykorean.com Joined 4591 days ago 7 posts - 16 votes Speaks: English*, Korean | Message 15 of 20 11 July 2012 at 5:20am | IP Logged | ||
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I've actually been thinking about this a lot lately.
I've been in Korea for 2 years, essentially studying Korean more than most people (aside from the people on this forum, possibly) can imagine. My friends back home (in Canada) all know that I speak Korean now. Those friends always say "Oh, he lived in Korea for 2 years, he just picked it up because that's all he was hearing." My answer to that is always "yes, I picked up quite a bit of things by doing nothing and 'passively' listening to things or whatever. But the thing is, I would have never been able to pick up on any of those things if I weren't also studying as well" So, to answer your question - can repeated passive exposure become active? From my experience - it can, but only if you are studying hard at the same time. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4533 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 16 of 20 11 July 2012 at 8:13pm | IP Logged | ||
I had exactly the same experience with German. You pick some things passively, but if you are actively studying at the same time, it's like a multiplicative effect, where you suddenly start picking up a lot more. And of course the more you pick up the more you understand things and the more you can pick up. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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