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Languages with closely related dialects ? | ||
Tags: Dialect | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4868 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes  Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 17 of 35 17 July 2012 at 5:27am | IP Logged | |||||
I'm by no means an expert on this topic, but I know that they are highly mutually intelligable. My listening comprehension is a little lower with North Korean, but not significantly so. I'm only at intermediate stage, so I guess this doesn't mean very much. There are original dialectal differences between the Seoul and Pyeongyang regions and some of the spelling rules diverge. Basic vocabulary is mostly the same, but some more recent terms are different. South Korean borrows far more words from English, while North Korean borrows some from Russian and often uses Korean terms where English loan words are used in South Korea. Of course both countries use words that carry little or no significance in the other country due to differences in political system, technological development, etc. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| 98789 Diglot Groupie Colombia Joined 5043 days ago 48 posts - 55 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English | Message 18 of 35 17 July 2012 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | |||||
1. Preferibly no. I think they could help me to familiarize with different sounds and structures but it's a minor language (at most 2 million speakers) with no oficial status anywhere ... 2. I'm not sure about English, but I'm not talking about those differences. I mean, in Spanish for example we have botar la basura tirar la basura Both meaning something like "to take out the trash" the first one is mostly used in LA (Latin America), second one in Spain. Perhaps, you could use "tirar la basura" in LA. While in Spain "botar la basura" would sound like "to bound the trash". The kind of differences I'd like to avoid as much as possible are, for example: "center" and "centre" (Yes, I know those are not verbs, but I can't think in a verb with that condition right now) or "atual" and "actual" (Portuguese). In Spanish, as far as I know, words keep the same all over the hispanosphere. "Mantequilla" (butter) is written the same in every country, it's not like "Mantequiya" in country A, "Mamtequilha" in country B and "Mhantekiyah" in country C, NO. (Perhaps, the word actually sound slightly different in some regions: sh-like sound of "ll" in the river plate zone, gli/lh-like (gli-italian, lh-portuguese) sound in other Areas, even, i-like sound specially in the caribbean Area, and y-like (spanish y) sound in the other countries), pronunciation would be someting like "mantekisha", "mantekilla" (mantekiglia, mantekilha), "mantekiia" and "mantekiya" (but the word is written, not to sound redundant, "mantequilla") And well, off course, The written part is not the only important. I'd also like understandable oral form. Like Spanish. This part explains itself I think, any Spanish speaker can understand any other Spanish speaker... according to what I've read here (this post answers), it seems that it doesn't happen with Italian (not sure yet about German). If there's no other language with those conditions, at least the nearest one. Thanks for the answers, I really appreciate them. Have a nice day! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7156 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 19 of 35 17 July 2012 at 7:39pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Hmmm... As far as I know, then you're looking for something impossible since languages show variation within their communities even though it doesn't necessarily impede mutual intelligibility. When it comes to verbs, even English isn't uniform.
E.g. British / American - to dispatch / to ship - to grill / to broil - to hire (a car) / to rent (a car) - to let / to rent out (from owner's POV) - to pass out (from a vocational/professional college) / to graduate (from a vocational/professional college) - to post / to mail - to queue / to line up, to get in line - to read (a subject at university) / to major in (a subject at university) - to ring / to call (i.e. use a phone) - to skive / to skip (e.g. work, school) - to slate / to disparage - to tout (tickets) / to scalp (tickets) It seems to me that languages that would best fit your criterium of having "closely related dialects" are pluricentric ones. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| stelingo Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5832 days ago 722 posts - 1076 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Czech, Polish, Greek, Mandarin | Message 20 of 35 17 July 2012 at 9:27pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they say manteca in Argentina for butter?
Anyway I don't see why you are making such an issue over regional differences in your eventual target language 98789. In most languages it isn't a big issue, speakers from different areas communicate with each other and cope when they come across variations. What's the big deal if centre/center is spelt differently from country to country, or one community says trash, and another rubbish? I am going to Argentina on Friday, and part of the fun of speaking a world language like Spanish is finding out about how the language differs, both in terms of grammar and vocabulary. I think it would be really boring if world languages like Spanish were uniform. I am sure that all Italians nowadays are able to communicate in standard Italian, and thus understand each other. The speakers are mainly confined to one country so are all exposed to the same national 'norm' Edited by stelingo on 17 July 2012 at 9:30pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6597 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 21 of 35 17 July 2012 at 9:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
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This. Unless someone grew up in a rural area and only speaks a dialect, you'll communicate just fine. And dialects are cool :)
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| Jappy58 Bilingual Super Polyglot Senior Member United States Joined 4638 days ago 200 posts - 413 votes Speaks: Spanish*, Guarani*, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Maghribi), Arabic (Written), French, English, Persian, Quechua, Portuguese Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 22 of 35 17 July 2012 at 10:16pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I strongly agree with stelingo and Serpent. If you're going to worry that much about variation, then it's likely you'll never even choose a language.
Spanish varies a little more than you seem to think it does, as well, in terms of the lexical areas as well. Here's a link to some Spanish word comparisons throughout the Hispanosphere: http://www.speakinglatino.com/the-matrix-spanish-words-compa risons/ And that's only a taste of it. Yes, many words almost remain the same, but many vary. It's not only between Latin America and Spain that there are differences. Yet there is great intelligibility anyways. My sincere opinion is that dialects add color to languages - be it this fascinating colloquial expression, or this interesting word not used in other dialects, and so on. Even as a native Spanish speaker I discover some cool new words or expressions in Spanish at least weekly. Many people fear the Arabic dialects because of the variations, but I found it a joy to explore the differences between the dialects. Furthermore, when it came to the Middle Eastern dialects, they had way more in common than they had in differences, and it was still captivating. While I wouldn't recommend Arabic for you, it truly is made more captivating because of the colloquialisms. I'm currently having fun exploring Portuguese (Brazilian, more specifically) and it's interesting to see how it and European Portuguese differ. In all, I think you're worrying too much about dialects. Yes, it can make learning a language a little more time consuming, but also much more interesting. Plus, with languages such as French and Persian, communication isn't usually seriously impeded between dialects. The same goes for Middle Eastern Arabic dialects and between Maghrebi dialects. In many cases, learning to recognize and understand dialects (I'm talking about languages in general) consists mainly of exposure and understanding the small differences. Please don't limit yourself because you feel you'll be learning a particular form of a language for nothing. Think about the languages that interest you, taste each one, and see which one you want to further explore. Don't let dialects be the sole reason to keep you from embarking on an incredible journey. :) 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| 98789 Diglot Groupie Colombia Joined 5043 days ago 48 posts - 55 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English | Message 23 of 35 17 July 2012 at 11:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, right. But I'm sure I've heard argentinians at TV saying that word (at least as a foreign word). Anyways, the RiverPlate is actually bigger than Argentina, the zone includes other countries were "mantequilla" is, in fact, used. - Well, I don't know why, but I find difficult to learn similar words (variations). I think there's no a big problem learning different words (probably I just take them as synonims of the same word). For example, a few years ago I read a portuguese tourists book (European Version) and learnt some vocabulary. This year I'm taking portuguese (Brasilian) at University and I find confusing words like "Suco" (Juice) -In Iberic, European Portuguese it's "Sumo"-. Probably it's just a vanity issue. I have a relatively good ortography in my native language and I wouldn't like to misspell in any language (probably I do it in English, specially with words I don't really know :S). I think I couldn't find an example in Spanish of a word changing that way ... (except, of course, misspelings ...) Ok, but the languages don't have to be strictly uniform. At least by now I find the portuguese enough uniform as to not discourage me. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6597 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 24 of 35 17 July 2012 at 11:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Nobody will think your Portuguese is bad just because they're more used to a different variety of it. Most people would probably just be glad that you make the effort though you could just speak your native Spanish to them.
(BTW suco comes from Latin while sumo comes from Greek. These are different words, just like ring/call) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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