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3 months to fluent croatian ?? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Merv Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5276 days ago 414 posts - 749 votes  Speaks: English*, Serbo-Croatian* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 9 of 17 04 January 2011 at 4:55pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
It seems that a similar situation exists with Japanese. I haven't opened a single book on it, but it sounds like most programs try to make out that pitch accent is an afterthought that you can just fix after you've learned everything else. Japanese is hard enough that the learner who is willing to deal with the alien (for an IE speaker) grammar and writing system would be able to deal with encountering at least the concept of pitch accent early on. Yes, you can be understood without it (as in SC, Slovene, and I'm guessing Norwegian, Lithuanian, etc.), but there's no point in deluding learners early on by hiding it from them. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7159 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 10 of 17 04 January 2011 at 5:42pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Here're discussions on Croatian tones (sic - "pitch-accent" would be the correct term) and BCMS accentuation in general among native-speakers (all done in English)
Without understanding pitch-accent (and by extension mobile stress) in BCMS, a learner likely won't fully grasp among other things the significance of (somewhat contrived) sentences such as "Gore gore gore gore" (the mountains up there are burning worse) or "Kose kose kose" (the bent scythes are mowing). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tennisfan Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5363 days ago 130 posts - 247 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, Spanish Studies: German | Message 11 of 17 06 January 2011 at 11:56pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Which programs would you say do a good job of going over pitch accent for Serbo-Croatian? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7159 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 12 of 17 07 January 2011 at 12:16am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Off the top of my head, the following courses go over pitch-accent in BCMS/SC with varying amounts of detail and exercises: FSI Serbo-Croatian Basic Course (look at the section starting on pg. 13 of Vol. 1) Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian, a Textbook: with Exercises and Basic Grammar Introduction to the Croatian and Serbian Language This last one marks accent placement in words up to the tenth lesson (out of 30), and also in words found in its reference section. It doesn't deal with pitch-accent per se, but at least the course's author bothered to mark stress placement (which is related to pitch-accent) in BCMS/SC words. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| newstylles Newbie Philippines Joined 5713 days ago 3 posts - 5 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Portuguese, Tagalog | Message 13 of 17 07 January 2011 at 10:58am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Thank you Splog for taking what I’ve discussed during the video into consideration before making an initial post here. I most certainly would have to agree with Chung and Merv. Actually my inspiration and enthusiasm for learning SC came from Chung after receiving valuable information about the language in the past. To point a few things out, the word “fluent” was never mentioned, nor would it have been appropriate to do so in the first place given the fact that only three months of effort and dedication was put into learning basic Croatian (just a personal opinion). The books "Introduction to the Croatian and Serbian Language" and "Teach Yourself Croatian" were both recommended by Chung. Since I was waiting for Thomas Magner's course to arrive, I decided to start off with TY Croat- and stuck with it. I used the course in a way of extracting the constructions and keywords throughout the first six units (explained in Moses McCormack's FLR method) and spoke out the dialogues while listening (as mentioned by Chung) “blindly imitate/parrot the recordings”.
Merv, a course in which gives an early introduction to pitch-accents would be Living Language: Spoken World Croatian… and I would assume the same goes for Magner’s course but I haven’t used it yet. To the OP: As for the email you’ve sent prior to opening this thread, I hope the “full of sh!t guy” has answered most of your questions and concerns. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Aineko Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 5451 days ago 238 posts - 442 votes Speaks: Serbian*, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Mandarin | Message 14 of 17 07 January 2011 at 8:32pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Newstylles, your progress is amazing! Honestly, when I opened your video I didn't expect
that you were going to express yourself so clearly, both in terms of pronunciation and constructions. There are mistakes, of course, but I can now remember only two of them (that is to say, there were only two mistakes that were actually distracting for a native speaker :) ). Moses' method works great for you. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Merv Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5276 days ago 414 posts - 749 votes Speaks: English*, Serbo-Croatian* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 15 of 17 07 January 2011 at 11:31pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I concur with Aineko. Considering the brief period of study and the difficulty of the language, you're doing great. I hope my earlier critiques don't discourage you, nor this whole pitch-accent discussion. I would say the most important thing is placement, then magnitude (short or long), and only then direction (rising or falling). As I've seen on other websites, it seems that the far western variant of SC (Croatian) doesn't make a huge distinction between rising and falling anyway. Except for the southeastern part of Serbia, where the pitch accent doesn't exist, the eastern variant (Serbian) makes distinctions between the four accents. The strongest distinctions are apparently in the central dialect (Herzegovinian, and less so Bosnian), in which the accents are almost exaggerated and the non-accented vowels can have distinctions in length. Interestingly, that's not entirely surprising given the fact that the four accents originate precisely from this area, and thus, as you might expect, they become less and less marked as you move away from Herzegovina. Congratulations and good luck! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tennisfan Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5363 days ago 130 posts - 247 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, Spanish Studies: German | Message 16 of 17 07 January 2011 at 11:50pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I remember when I first started getting interested in Serbo-Croatian, I noticed what seemed to be a difference in pitch-accent amongst the so-called infamous leaders of Yugoslavia during the 90s. I could be wrong, but it seems like even to a non-trained ear you can hear the difference between, say, Karadzic and Izetbegovic, in this mp3 for example:
http://www.zshare.net/audio/8490109089bd2e20/ 1 person has voted this message useful |
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