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Michael K.’s Esperanto log | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Michael K. Senior Member United States Joined 5578 days ago 568 posts - 886 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Esperanto | Message 25 of 74 19 May 2011 at 10:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks, Jinx.
I haven't studied Esperanto at all since my last post (nor have I read this forum), although I had the opportunity on Saturday but didn't. Right now I'm living in a 3 bedroom apartment with 7 other guys about 100 miles from home (well, not literally RIGHT NOW, I'm at home since I have my day off, and will come home next week since I have a doctor's appointment, but after that I probably won't be home for another 8 weeks). The hours so far are long and I want to go straight to bed every night after getting off work. It seems my days off will be Thursday and I will most likely work 8-11 hours a day starting in the afternoon. The local library opens at 10 AM so I might get to study for at least half an hour in the mornings if I start my shift at 1 PM. I don't have a routine yet, so that's the hardest part about making future plans. Fortunately this situation is only until the middle of August and afterwards my routine will return to normal. I don't think I'm doing too poorly, considering this is the second time I tried to learn a language on my own without any prior instruction, the other one being German which I'll revisit later once I get to a higher level in Spanish or Esperanto, since 3 languages at once is too much for me. I'll write again next Thursday. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Michael K. Senior Member United States Joined 5578 days ago 568 posts - 886 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Esperanto | Message 26 of 74 22 June 2011 at 11:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Well, it was longer than I expected, but I'm posting again.
Shortly after my last post I became very unsatisfied with my job and wanted to quit, but I stayed on for another 5 weeks and quit this past Monday. Now I need to figure out what to do with the time I have until the end of August when classes start up again. I have a few ideas, but obviously prefer getting another job to the other alternatives. I got the chance to visit 2 libraries in the past few days and checked out a lot of books, so I just want to relax and read for a little while. I'll start up again, after a lot of review, lesson 6 of the correspondance course early next week. I don't think I really remember any Esperanto, so I need to review a lot, but I remember correlatives gave me a lot of trouble. I might use my 2 books, TYS Esperanto and Hippocrene's "Beginner's Esperanto" at the beginning of next week when I start up again, but that might be a little too much. I'll post agin once I start up, or when I get a reply, whichever comes first. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5448 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 27 of 74 23 June 2011 at 1:40am | IP Logged | |||||
Oh really?! Written Esperanto never omits the -n. This is really a problem in a prescriptive language like Esperanto. In its Fundamento which is unalterable by definition ("la fundamento de nia lingvo devas resti por ĉiam netuŝebla") is written as its second rule: "La akuzativo aldonas "n" post la "o" aŭ la "oj".. It seems, ugly Language Change rears its head again and threatens Zamenhof's holy decalogue. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6552 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 28 of 74 23 June 2011 at 3:02am | IP Logged | |||||
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Well, it happened to Latin, it happened to German as spoken in Nordrhein-Westphalen and it will happen to Esperanto. And yet it will still be Esperanto.
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| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5448 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 29 of 74 23 June 2011 at 3:46am | IP Logged | |||||
Oh, will it? I thought, someone, who changes its basic rules, does not speak Esperanto any more, but one of the numerous Esperantidos!
Well, when the people began to say instead of "Mater filiam amavit" the phrase "La mère a aimé sa fille, this language could not any more be called Latin, because a Latin without cases and a synthetic past is no Latin any more, so let us call it French. Esperanto is different from naturally evolving langages by having a founding document, which keeps it in artificial bounds. The same problem exists for example for Hebrew, were the authority of the biblical corpus makes language change a bit of a sacrilege. Or as the language councel puts it (this is only a periphrase): "The language is still too weak to allow for developments which are contrary to the inherited language form" Edited by Cabaire on 23 June 2011 at 3:47am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Jinx Triglot Senior Member Germany reverbnation.co Joined 5542 days ago 1085 posts - 1879 votes Speaks: English*, German, French Studies: Catalan, Dutch, Esperanto, Croatian, Serbian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Italian, Spanish, Yiddish | Message 30 of 74 25 June 2011 at 9:44pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Yes, as far as I know, people who study Latin today (and there are lots of them) still use all the case endings, etc. And dedicated Esperantists do the same. (There is of course "Latino sine flexione," as well as "Ido," but I seriously doubt that anyone in their right mind would claim that these languages "are" Latin and Esperanto.)
Michael, it's great to hear from you again! I do hope you continue your studies, but of course getting a job clearly takes precedence. Best of luck to you with that. Do keep posting if you get the chance! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Michael K. Senior Member United States Joined 5578 days ago 568 posts - 886 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Esperanto | Message 31 of 74 05 November 2011 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks, Jinx, Iversen, and Cabaire, although it appears Cabaire is being especially sarcastic, LOL. I've had so many unintentional consequences with this thread, from the discussion of Esperantists being partisan (I don't think they are anymore, but some do have some pretty strong emotions about the language) to the accusative ending -n (which is one of the things I dislike about Esperanto, since I don't get it) being lost. Might I add, that bit was from a book I read, so take it up with Okrent and not my log if you don't like it, LOL.
I made a passing comment on Sprachprofi's thread about reading 25 books in 10 languages and said I'd like to read in 6 myself. She said Esperanto would help with it, so I thought about studying Esperanto once again. I haven't really found any Esperanto resources that I really like, but Sprachprofi said I could work my way through "Gerda Malaperis" on lernu, since I'm mostly interested in reading. I think I'll try it when I get the chance. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Jinx Triglot Senior Member Germany reverbnation.co Joined 5542 days ago 1085 posts - 1879 votes Speaks: English*, German, French Studies: Catalan, Dutch, Esperanto, Croatian, Serbian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Italian, Spanish, Yiddish | Message 32 of 74 05 November 2011 at 6:36pm | IP Logged | |||||
Be careful of Arika Okrent. She came and gave a talk at my university supporting her book "In the Land of Invented Languages", and even an undergraduate non-specialist like myself had no problem finding multiple obvious falsities in her presention. Some of her comments on Esperanto and toki pona featured the type of glaring inaccuracy that would have been avoided with just a few days of studying the language in question, forcing me to conclude that she must have spent a few hours at most on each of them. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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