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Adjectival: Definite Article or not [NO] | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4290 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes  Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 1 of 6 06 May 2015 at 11:12pm | IP Logged |
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I was wondering what the difference is when one is given a choice in Norwegian
(perhaps the same in Swedish and Danish) between the definite article or not with an adjectivised noun, i.e. den siste mandagen or siste mandagen I imagine that it sounds different although both are technically correct. When to use one or the other when in a situation that the two choices with or without definite article are correct, or at least, how does it sound to a native between using or not using it? I have been reviewing this topic in my Norwegian grammar book, but am still slightly confused on when to use which. Edited by 1e4e6 on 06 May 2015 at 11:14pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4707 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 2 of 6 07 May 2015 at 4:37am | IP Logged |
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They both already have the definite article; -en is the definite article which is
always tacked on to the end. The den is more of an emphasis, and I would usually use it; but keep in mind it means you are adding a demonstrative, NOT an article. It can be variously translated as an article or a demonstrative, but grammatically it's a demonstrative. Den röda bilen = the red car, that red car depending on context. Ska du ha den röda eller den vita? "Would you like the (that) red or the (that) white one?" If you really need to emphasise these/those, there are dessa/detta, but they're not often used in Swedish (maybe they are in Norwegian); in Swedish at least, you replace them by "den här/den där" in the spoken language (in writing you will see dessa/detta a lot more often). Edited by tarvos on 07 May 2015 at 4:39am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6909 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 6 07 May 2015 at 6:38pm | IP Logged |
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Thanks for jumping in before I saw this thread. Perfect explanation. Now I can retire :)
1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4668 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 4 of 6 08 May 2015 at 1:17am | IP Logged |
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Definitive article or not is more like this:
UNITED NATIONS: De forente nasjoner (NB) zero article Dei sameinte nasjonane (NN) article THE WHITE HOUSE: Det hvite hus (NB) zero article Det kvite huset (NN) article WW2: Annen verdenskrig (NB) zero article Andre verdskrigen (NN) article In New Norwegian, you basically use the article all the time, while Dano-Norwegian in many cases keeps the Danish-style usage with zero article. The regularity point in this case goes to New Norwegian. Edited by Medulin on 08 May 2015 at 1:19am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4639 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 5 of 6 11 May 2015 at 12:25pm | IP Logged |
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Medulin explains it well, but I would like to add that in Norwegian Bokmål the use without article is normally limited to names of institutions, historical events etc. like Medulin's examples. So if you say Det hvite hus, it is understood that you refer to the White House in Washington. However, if you want to say "She lives in the white house at the end of the road" you would say "Hun bor i det hvite huset ved enden av veien".
As to the OP's example den siste mandagen/siste mandagen, I think that if I do not use the demonstrative den/det, I would normally omit the article. Some examples: Hvor var du siste uke? (Where were you last week?), but Den siste uken av sommerferien var jeg i Italia. (The last week of the summer holiday I was in Italy. I do not say that the construct with article but no demonstrative, like siste mandagen is not used, but it does not sound totally natural to me. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6909 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 6 11 May 2015 at 8:12pm | IP Logged |
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There are also Swedish constructions without the ending article, and that's where the pronoun is determinative instead of demonstrative, e.g.
Den amerikanske författare (NOT författaren) som skrev Da Vinci-koden heter Dan Brown. Usually front-heavy sentences, and usually "den/det/de...som". Edited by jeff_lindqvist on 11 May 2015 at 8:22pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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