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Hungarian Nouns, Principal Parts | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5229 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 1 of 4 31 July 2015 at 4:25pm | IP Logged |
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When learning Latin noun, one typically learns the nominative form, the genitive form, and the gender if it's not determined by the above. In German, the singular nominative, the plural nominative, and the gender are learned.
What's necessary for learning a Hungarian noun? The nominative, naturally, but anything else? Or are the cases fully derivable from simply the nominative singular (plus knowledge of how vowel harmony will affect the case endings)? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7157 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 2 of 4 06 August 2015 at 12:56am | IP Logged |
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At the beginning it could be helpful to learn at least the nominative plural in addition to the nominative singular.
--- Adding just one suffix to a noun whose nominative singular form ends in -i, -í, -o, -ó ,-ő ,-u, -ú, or -ű almost always means just adding that suffix to the noun. I don't see the need to memorize another form. "snake" kigyó (nom. sing.) kigyók (nom. plur. - "snakes") kigyót (acc. sing.) kigyóban (inessive sing. "in (a) snake") kigyóhoz (allative sing. "toward a snake") kigyóm (1st person possessive - "my snake") "Ili" (nickname for Ilona) Ili (nom. sing.) Ilik (nom. plur. - "Ilis") Ilit (acc. sing.) Iliben (inessive sing. "in Ili") Ilihez (allative sing. "toward Ili") Ilim (1st person possessive - "my Ili") "snow" (one of the exceptions - stem can be hó- or hava-) hó (nom. sing.) havak (nom. plur. - "snows") havat (acc. sing.) hóban (inessive sing. "in snow") hóhoz (allative sing. "toward snow") havam (1st person possessive - "my snow") --- Adding just one suffix to a noun whose nominative singular form ends in -a or -e means adding that suffix to the noun but lengthening the final -a or -e to -á or -é respectively. This isn't too complicated since it's regular, and beginners would figure this out quickly. As in the set of nouns above, just knowing the nominative singular is enough. "lamp" lámpa (nom. sing.) lámpák (nom. plur. - "lamps") lámpát (acc. sing.) lámpában (inessive sing. "in (a) lamp") lámpához (allative sing. "toward (a) lamp") lámpám (1st person possessive - "my lamp") "verb" ige (nom. sing.) igék (nom. plur. - "verbs") igát (acc. sing.) igében (inessive sing. "in (a) verb") igéhez (allative sing. "toward (a) verb") igém (1st person possessive - "my verb") --- For nouns ending in consonants, things become trickier because you'll sometimes need to add a linking vowel to make the inflected form pronounceable. The linking vowel isn't always easy to guess especially when the stem contains -a, -á, -o or -ö. In these instances, knowing the nominative singular and plural will be helpful in being able to inflect the word properly regardless of case, number or possessor. After some practice/exposure, you'll be able to inflect correctly on the first try even for an unfamiliar word. "family" család (nom. sing.) családok (nom. plur. - "families") családot (acc. sing.) családban (inessive sing. "in (a) family") családhoz (allative sing. "toward (a) family") családom (1st person possessive - "my family") "hair" haj (nom. sing.) hajak (nom. plur. - "hairs") hajat (acc. sing.) hajban (inessive sing. "in (a) hair") hajhoz (allative sing. "toward (a) hair") hajam (1st person possessive - "my hair") "book" könyv (nom. sing.) könyvek (nom. plur. - "books") könyvet (acc. sing.) könyvben (inessive sing. "in (a) book") könyvhöz (allative sing. "toward (a) book") könyvem (1st person possessive - "my book") "elbow" könyök (nom. sing.) könyökök (nom. plur. - "elbows") könyököt (acc. sing.) könyökben (inessive sing. "in (an) elbow") könyökhöz (allative sing. "toward (an) elbow") könyököm (1st person possessive - "my elbow") Unfamiliar stems with -e or -é less frequently can also elude being inflected correctly on the first try. "child" gyerek (nom. sing.) gyerekek (nom. plur. - "children") gyereket (acc. sing.) gyerekben (inessive sing. "in (a) child") gyerekhez (allative sing. "toward (a) child") gyerekem (1st person possessive - "my child") "mouse" (-é- becomes -e- in acc. sing. and nom. plur. and when possessed) egér (nom. sing.) egerek (nom. plur. - "mice") egeret (acc. sing.) egérben (inessive sing. "in (a) mouse") egérhez (allative sing. "toward (a) mouse") egerem (1st person possessive - "my mouse") "strawberry" (eper- ~ epr- i.e. second -e- disappears) eper (nom. sing.) eprek (nom. plur. - "strawberries") epret (acc. sing.) eperben (inessive sing. "in (a) strawberry") eperhez (allative sing. "toward (a) strawberry") eprem (1st person possessive - "my strawberry") --- All of the preceding discussion about linking vowels becomes more prominent when you start adding more than one suffix to a noun. At this point, I can't give better insight to a learner than to get a lot of exposure since I've never found a reliable set of rules governing the addition of linking vowels with nouns in these environments (especially for the words that have just back vowels since the linking vowels can be either -a or -o or both). e.g. könyveket "books" (acc. plur.) a könyveimben "in my books" (inessive plur. 1st person possessive) a családomat "my family" (acc. sing. 1st person possessive) a hajamat "my hair" (acc. sing. 1st person possessive) By the way, the variety of linking vowels in Hungarian is not beneath academic study. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5229 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 3 of 4 06 August 2015 at 4:22pm | IP Logged |
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So that question went unanswered for days, and I thought, screw you, forum! See if I still bring you donuts in the morning! And then Chung comes and writes an extremely precise and awesome response. I'm overwhelmed and grateful.
So, from what I see, the plural nominative is easily predicted for some endings, less so for others. Seems like the best thing to do is memorize the singular and plural nominative. If there's a fleeting vowel, one will be able to see that in the nominative plural. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7157 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 4 of 4 07 August 2015 at 10:44pm | IP Logged |
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It doesn't seem to be a harmful practice as a beginner. It's rather odd, but when I was learning Hungarian, I never bothered to learn explicitly the nominative plural in addition to the singular of every unfamiliar word. However after some practice, I began to see patterns.
On reviewing the post, I'll add that stems with a fleeting vowel occur regardless of whether the stem has -e- or not. e.g. "throat" (torok- ~ tork- i.e. second -o- disappears) torok (nom. sing.) torkok (nom. plur. - "throats") torkot (acc. sing.) torokban (inessive sing. "in (a) throat") torokhoz (allative sing. "toward (a) throat") torkom (1st person possessive - "my throat") "mirror" (tükör- ~ tükr- i.e. -ö- disappears) tükör (nom. sing.) tükrök (nom. plur. - "mirror") tükröt (acc. sing.) tükörben (inessive sing. "in (a) mirror") tükörhöz (allative sing. "toward (a) mirror") tükröm (1st person possessive - "my mirror") "lip" (ajak- ~ ajk- i.e. second -a- disappears) ajak (nom. sing.) ajkak (nom. plur. - "lips") ajkat (acc. sing.) ajakban (inessive sing. "in (a) lip") ajakhoz (allative sing. "toward (a) lip") ajkam (1st person possessive - "my lip") --- The more that I think of it, I'm starting to detect a tendency in the linking vowels of words with back vowels. The linking vowel between the first and second suffix is -a- regardless of what the first linking vowel is (if applicable). e.g. "tower" (torony- ~ torny- i.e. fleeting vowel) torony (nom. sing.) tornyok (nom. plur. - "towers") tornyot (acc. sing. - "tower") tornyokat (acc. plur. "towers") tornyomat (acc. sing., 1st person possessive "my tower") "station" (állomás-) állomás (nom. sing.) állomások (nom. plur. - "stations") állomást (acc. sing. - "station") állomásokat (acc. plur. "stations") állomásomat (acc. sing., 1st person possessive "my station") "trip; way" (N.B. út- ~ ut- i.e. shortening of ú) út (nom. sing.) utak (nom. plur. - "trips") utat (acc. sing. - "trip") utakat (acc. plur. "trips") utamat (acc. sing., 1st person possessive "my trip") "fish" (hal-) hal (nom. sing.) halak (nom. plur. - "fishes") halat (acc. sing. - "fish") halakat (acc. plur. "fishes") halamat (acc. sing., 1st person possessive "my fish") "street" (utcá-) utca (nom. sing.) utcák (nom. plur. - "streets") utcát (acc. sing. - "street") utcákat (acc. plur. "streets") utcámat (acc. sing., 1st person possessive "my street") 1 person has voted this message useful |
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