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Flavor particles (german) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| Silvance5 Groupie United States Joined 5502 days ago 86 posts - 118 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, French | Message 1 of 5 12 November 2009 at 2:08am | IP Logged | ||
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Do these actually have a direct English translation or is it just something I'll have to guess on. For example, out of my textbook:
Aber Till hat ja einen Rucksack! Ja being the flavoring particle. Edited by Silvance5 on 12 November 2009 at 2:23am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jae Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5672 days ago 206 posts - 239 votes Speaks: English*, German, Latin Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, French | Message 2 of 5 12 November 2009 at 6:09pm | IP Logged | ||
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The way I would probably translate it is:
But Till does have a backpack! In English, the direct translation of "ja" does not exist in this instance. (i.e. you wouldn't say: "But Till yes has a backpack!"). However, the word "ja" just emphasizes that he, in fact, have it. In English we simply use helping verbs (in this case "does") for this. Hope that helps. Viel Glueck mit deutsch! Edited by jae on 12 November 2009 at 6:10pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| SamD Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6667 days ago 823 posts - 987 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Portuguese, Norwegian | Message 3 of 5 13 November 2009 at 5:08pm | IP Logged | ||
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Would it be possible to use "doch" instead of "ja" in that sentence?
I think of "doch" as an intensifier. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6902 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 4 of 5 15 November 2009 at 1:35pm | IP Logged | ||
There is no direct one-word translation. These "flavors" will be translated in different ways depending on context, and often you have to leave them untranslated. In speech you can get the "flavor" across by emphasis and tone of voice. Developing an understanding for them is a slow process mostly down to being exposed to them many many times in real life. Spoken input is essential for this, as the tone of voice helps to establish the flavor and shade of meaning in each case. It is more helpful to separate this "ja" from the "ja" that means "yes". Think of it as a completely different word where the spelling just happens to coincide. In Swedish we have a separate word "ju" with the same meanign as this "ja" in German. Here are a few possible contexts for your example sentence: Aber Till hat ja einen Rucksack! But Till does have a backpack! (someone just claimed or implied that he didn't *) But Till has a backpack! (it was claimed or implied he had something else instead) But Till has a backpack! (it was claimed or implied that no-one around here had one) Which one of these it is would come across by what went before, and by emphasis in pronunciation, and then be further strengthened by the "ja". It could also be used in a more neutral sense, especially if we remove the "but" and the exclamation mark: Till hat ja einen Rucksack. - Till has a backpack (with no special emphasis). Here the "ja" would convey the meaning of "as we all know", "it is a well-known fact that he has one". Or we could have a case like: Till will be able to carry all the food, the tent and the rest of the hiking gear. He has (ja) a backpack. Here the "ja" signals something like "this explains or justifies the previous statements". * I think in this one "ja" could be replaced by "doch". I'm not so sure about the other cases. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| rabyte Triglot Groupie Germany Joined 6038 days ago 44 posts - 46 votes Speaks: German*, English, French Studies: Spanish, Hindi | Message 5 of 5 15 November 2009 at 6:51pm | IP Logged | ||
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Aber Till hat ja einen Rucksack!
Hm, depends on the context. I understand it like this "I bought a backpack and would like to make it a present to Till...but oh, he already has one.. The version where you use the "ja" sounds a bit more dissapointed then "schon". Till hat schon einen Rucksack is more neutral. But it really depends on the context here. I give you some more examples where you could use this "ja" Ich würde heute gerne schwimmen gehen, aber du hast ja keine Zeit (already knowing that the person doesn't have the time to go swimming, again it sounds more dissapointed or reproachful) Ich kann dir ja schreiben, wenn du willst. (consoling, proposition..) Ich kann dir schreiben, wenn du willst. (Neutral question, maybe a bit annoyed) I just realize it's not that easy :) Btw: I think the "ja" is more often used in common speech, not in written textes. "Ach, du hast ja keine Ahnung!" - Oh my god, you have no idea (HOW BAD it was..) "Ach, du hast keine Ahnung!" - You don't have experience with that / You're stupid :D To me it sounds all a bit more friendly with the "ja"... Du weißt ja, Deutsche können auch nett sein :p 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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