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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| Paskwc Pentaglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5683 days ago 450 posts - 624 votes  Speaks: Hindi, Urdu*, Arabic (Levantine), French, English Studies: Persian, Spanish | Message 1 of 20 16 November 2009 at 5:10am | IP Logged | ||
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I sometimes find myself at a loss when trying to describe people's nationalities. As
far as I can tell some countries' people have the same word as a noun and as an adjective whereas others don't. Can someone please explain the following? For people from Spain: Do I say "the Spanish" or "the Spaniards"? For individuals from from China: Do I say "a Chinese," or "a Chinaman," or "a Chinese person"? For individuals from Britain: Do I say "a British person," or "a Britisher," or "a Briton"? Thank you. Edited by Paskwc on 16 November 2009 at 5:18am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| YoshiYoshi Senior Member China Joined 5537 days ago 143 posts - 205 votes Speaks: Mandarin* | Message 2 of 20 16 November 2009 at 6:44am | IP Logged | ||
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Chinaman is a derogatory term for calling Chinese people (race or nation). Chinese (noun), a Chinese (singular), the Chinese (plural), a Chinese person (it seems odd or formal).
Spaniard (old-fashioned), a Spanish (singular), the Spanish (plural). Britisher (old-fashioned), Briton (formal), a/the British (singular/plural). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| anamsc Triglot Senior Member Andorra Joined 6209 days ago 296 posts - 382 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Catalan Studies: Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Written), French | Message 3 of 20 16 November 2009 at 7:12am | IP Logged | ||
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I agree with YoshiYoshi for the most part, except some a couple of things:
-I have never heard "a Chinese" except in non-native speech. I think the most normal thing would be "a Chinese person", which doesn't strike me as odd or formal at all. -Similarly, I've never heard "a Spanish"; for me it would be "a Spaniard" (not old-fashioned to my ears), but "the Spanish" and not "the Spaniards" (like YoshiYoshi said). -Again, it seems weird to me to say "a British", and I think "a British person" would be more common, if not correct. I had never heard "Britisher", and a quick Google search indicates that it is mostly informal and used on the Indian subcontinent. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| YoshiYoshi Senior Member China Joined 5537 days ago 143 posts - 205 votes Speaks: Mandarin* | Message 4 of 20 16 November 2009 at 7:48am | IP Logged | ||
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Mr Paskwc, I'm sorry, and Mr/Ms anamsc, thank you for correcting me.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Paskwc Pentaglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5683 days ago 450 posts - 624 votes Speaks: Hindi, Urdu*, Arabic (Levantine), French, English Studies: Persian, Spanish | Message 5 of 20 16 November 2009 at 8:52am | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks for your responses.
Are Frenchman, Englishman, and Dutchman also offensive or is there a special exception for Chinaman? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6774 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 6 of 20 16 November 2009 at 9:18am | IP Logged | ||
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Frenchman, Englishman, Dutchman, Scotsman, and Welshman are all perfectly fine words, so I don't exactly get
why some people consider Chinaman derogatory. However, it seems to be a curious quirk of anglophone culture that English speakers are terrified of offending Asians. I suspect it is only English speakers themselves who are offended by 'Chinaman', and not the Chinese themselves (unless they are told they ought to be offended). Unfortunately, American/Canadian/British culture has no shortage of people who love being vicariously offended on behalf of others. In answer to the original question, you can colloquially call someone from the UK a Brit, plural Brits.
"The Spanish" would refer to the Spanish people and nation in general. "Spaniard" is fine for an individual although it sounds a bit literary. I think in general, the preferred way to refer to any foreigner would be [demonym adjective] + [specific noun]. I.e. British tourist, French acquaintance, Spanish colleague. Edited by Captain Haddock on 16 November 2009 at 9:21am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| YoshiYoshi Senior Member China Joined 5537 days ago 143 posts - 205 votes Speaks: Mandarin* | Message 7 of 20 16 November 2009 at 10:18am | IP Logged | ||
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IMHO, from a Chinese perspective, Chinaman itself sounds just as neutral as Frenchman and Dutchman (though I haven't found it out in the dictionaries, and grammatically, Chinaman? or Chineseman?), but some overseas Chinese are inclined to consider it slightly derogatory when a foreigner calls them Chinaman (中国佬, zhōng-guó-lǎor) in a haughty or hostile tone. Perhaps (I'm not sure) some Americans have the same feeling when they're sometimes called Yankee (美国佬, mĕi-guó-lǎor).
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6017 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 8 of 20 16 November 2009 at 10:43am | IP Logged | ||
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As Captain Haddock says, two word descriptions are the norm these days.
Basically "un español" is good Spanish, but English doesn't like using adjectives as nouns, so "*a Spanish" is incorrect in most of the English-speaking world. The big exception, though, is anywhere in the US with a strong Spanish influence, where the Spanish pattern has been borrowed. Most notable is California, so Hollywood does say "a Chinese", "a Spanish" etc, which is why YoshiYoshi has learnt it that way even though the vast majority of English speakers wouldn't say that. That said, we're happy to use a nationality as a noun if it ends in -an, eg: a German, two Mexicans and half a dozen South Korean whose are married to Russians and Italians. And not just nationalities -- any demonym. Sicilians and Glaswegians come from a place that isn't a country. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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