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Resources for Lowland Scots? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5839 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes  Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 33 of 69 20 July 2010 at 10:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
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So Scots is English with a thick Scottish accent, creative spelling and some regional words...?
Ok... Interesting that they managed to convince ISO that this this is a separate language! I don't care whether this is a separate language or not, but if this was to set a precedence, English could degenerate into at least 20 different languages... "Political correctness" is wonderful for achieving such goals....! I guess nobody was bold enough to tell the Scots that if they wanted distinct Scottish language to call their own, they should have stuck with.. Gaelic? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| johntm93 Senior Member United States Joined 5328 days ago 587 posts - 746 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish | Message 34 of 69 20 July 2010 at 10:36pm | IP Logged | |||||
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... Edited by johntm93 on 21 July 2010 at 5:54am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7157 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 35 of 69 20 July 2010 at 10:45pm | IP Logged | |||||
The presence of a code from ISO isn't always the decisive indicator of whether something is a language or not. For example, ISO gives the code HBS for "Serbo-Croatian" (a deprecated term for some in the former Yugoslavia but that's a separate point) and calls it a "Macrolanguage" (whatever that means). In turn, the codes for Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian are BOS, HRV and SRP respectively yet it's heatedly disputed whether they are separate languages or just variants of the same language. There's also the case of Meänkieli (Tornedalsfinska) versus Finnish. The former's ISO code is FIT whereas the latter's is FIN. It's disputed whether Meänkieli and Finnish are separate languages or not. johntm93, run a search of this database for spoken examples of Scots as well as Scottish English (i.e. English with Scottish influence). www.scottishcorpus.ac.uk/corpus/search/ 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| johntm93 Senior Member United States Joined 5328 days ago 587 posts - 746 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish | Message 36 of 69 20 July 2010 at 11:03pm | IP Logged | |||||
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Adamdm Groupie Australia Joined 5438 days ago 62 posts - 89 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Mandarin, Japanese, Dari, German, Spanish, Russian, Arabic (Written) | Message 37 of 69 21 July 2010 at 3:38am | IP Logged | |||||
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Check this out folks - the Lallans Society website:
http://www.lallans.co.uk/ An article on the origins of the language: http://www.lallans.co.uk/furthsettins/wittins.html And, you can even join the society and help in the promotion of Lallans (=Lowland Scots, in contrast with Highland Scots = Gaelic). Whether they welcome participation by those that are patently non-Scots, however, is not apparent. Here is an excert from the FAQ:
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| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 38 of 69 21 July 2010 at 6:08pm | IP Logged | |||||
Now compare that with Scots: "Aye, ah'll dae it the morra when a gan/gae tae the toun. It'll no take us fower minutes lyke. D'y want us tae get ye sumthin an aw?" Grammatically identical to the Geordie (I'm not sure whether there's a definite article in "t'toon", which is why I say that the Scots dialects and the NE England dialects are all dialects of a single language distinct from English. The main differences this group of lects have from English are consistently shared across the whole group -- it is that consistent grammatical basis that defines the language, even if there are issues of accent (less of a difference than our spelling would suggest) and local vocabulary on top of this.
The problem is the name, but it is you that is misusing it. The French spoken in the Basque Country is not "Basque". The English spoken on a Navajo reservation is not Navajo. English has displaced Scots just as it displaced Navajo and French displaced Basque. The contact effects of Scots in Modern Scottish English is not the evolution of Scots, it's mere contact effects on English, and with each generation, these contact effects are lessened. It is not a modified version of Scots, it's a modified version of English, so the language name shouldn't move to a new language. The Geordie of today is a lot posher and more understandable than the Geordie of pre-media times. It remains however Geordie. It has just changed. Scots is the same. Vocabulary- lots of weird words all over the country that aren't used elsewhere. What is a canny bairn, a stotty, a burn, hacky and ket? Grammar- I'm pretty sure the use of sat rather than sitting like that is pretty common when in story teller mode like that. As to the tripartite distinction- that isn't so much done in the north of England however it is done in Yorkshire with yon/yonder.[/QUOTE] 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 39 of 69 21 July 2010 at 6:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
It's interesting how your lot managed to convince the ISO that Danish spoken with a thick Swedish accent, creative regional spelling and some regional words was a separate language. This is every bit as valid a statement as yours, and every bit as offensive. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5839 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 40 of 69 21 July 2010 at 10:07pm | IP Logged | |||||
Another good example. I am Swedish and had not even heard of this "language" until just recently. So there are some people in Sweden who speak Finnish as a mother tongue. Obviously they use some Swedish words that they throw into the Finnish while they speak. It's not even a very large group. I think it's silly to call it a separate language -- at least for the gov't to spend money on this, which they apparently do. The Swedish speaking people in Finland don't fuss about with that, they simply say that they speak Swedish, and anyone can clearly hear where they come from. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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