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Latvia - bilingual country? (s/w localiza | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5839 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes  Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 1 of 22 23 March 2012 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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Am localising software for a software project I am leading at work.
For the Latvian markets, in view of my interest in Russian and the fact that I spent about 5 weeks in Latvia recently quite recently, I'd say that Latvia is very much a bilingual country and needs two versions of the software every bit as much as Belgium, Switzerland, Finland or any other traditionally bilingual country in Europe or elsewhere. But the initial feedback I recieved is "No", they need only Latvian... What's the view of others on this? 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Evita Tetraglot Senior Member Latvia learnlatvian.info Joined 6553 days ago 734 posts - 1036 votes Speaks: Latvian*, English, German, Russian Studies: Korean, Finnish | Message 2 of 22 23 March 2012 at 3:40pm | IP Logged | ||
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It depends on the software you have and who the final users will be. If you anticipate Russians using it a lot then it probably would be a good idea to have Russian as an option. I have to say, though, that this is not a trend in the software industry. I think most Russians use software made in Russia (if they want it in Russian). If they bought software from Sweden they'd probably use the English version; I know I would even if you made a Latvian version for me. The problem with localized software (specifically for Latvian) is that the quality of translation is usually not good enough and the official translations for some computer-related terms (like header or footer or keyboard) are simply ridiculous and not used in real life. So I prefer to always stick with the English version.
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| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7157 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 3 of 22 23 March 2012 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think that this post from this recently heated discussion neatly summarizes the country's bilingualism.
From what I can tell, the number of monolingual Russian-speakers in the country is smaller than presented (i.e. it's not a simple division that all non-Latvians (mainly Russians, but also Poles or Ukrainians) speak Russian to the exclusion of Latvian while not all Latvians lack practical ability in Russian). I think that the matter is also a touch complicated by Latvian being the only official language of Latvia. If you were to put out a product with just Latvian and Russian labelling, some nationally-conscious Latvians may wonder what's up since they could argue that Russian has no official status in the country and so Latvian-only descriptions fit neatly with Latvian's status in officialdom whereas those other countries that you mention are officially bilingual/multilingual. However this argument could be negated by releasing a product that is broadly regional. That is remove the layout from suggesting something that's nationally specific to something that is regionally-specific. In this case you could use side-by-side labelling in Belorussian, Estonian, Latvian, Lithuanian and/or Russian. In this way, customers would conclude that the product is for a combined Baltic/Eastern European market much like how products in Hungary, for example, are often presented as part of an Eastern or Central European market showing side-by-side labels in BCMS/Serbo-Croatian, Czech, German, Hungarian, Polish, Romanian, Slovak and/or Slovenian. On the other hand, Evita's suggestions seem sound and with Latvian being sandwiched by large speech communities, it makes a lot of sense that users take the versions/translations that they want given that it's the software that matters. If there's a good set of instructions in English in addition to what's presented in the other languages, most users shouldn't mind if they behave like Evita. Edited by Chung on 23 March 2012 at 4:17pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5839 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 4 of 22 24 March 2012 at 10:34am | IP Logged | ||
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This is software that will be mandatory to use for all Latvian employees at a large international retail company. The majority of employees are shop workers, in Riga. Some will be managers, admin staff, logistics workers etc. This company is VERY big on respecting employee rights and seeing employees as individuals, they take this value more seriously than any other organisation I've ever worked for. However, the HR department which ordered the software is obviously not up to scratch on the language politics of Latvia. I am aware that language is a real ticking bomb in Latvia and that situation is more sensitive and infected perhaps than even in Belgium. I am also aware that the Russian speakers have held their head down and put up with quite a lot, perhaps because of historical reasons, still getting used to living in a democracy etc. Based on my experience of Latvia and Riga, about half of the natives of Riga are native Russian speakers, but I believe the majority can get by allright in Latvian, and in fact, are forced to by Latvia's unusual (by European standards) insistence on acknowledging only one of the two languages actually spoken by its citizens... It feels ridiculous to go to a lot of extra trouble for the same software, to cater for 15% minority of Swedish speakers in Finland (who can all speak Finnish) or Italian speakers in Switzerland (who can all speak French), while ignoring a 40% chunk of Latvians, when I saw with my own eyes that they are not always great at Latvian. The system includes quite a bit of reading and "exam" questions. I would not want to take such "exams" and course for work in a language that I did not feel confident in. Probably the employees are hired with the expectation that they speak Latvian though - that would be the other side of the argument. On the other hand, I have done several localisation projects for in house developed software for companies that are supposed to have English as a "language of internal communication" - fluent English being a condition for employment. If that had really been the case, then the localisation would not have been necessary. I just don't like the inconsistency of "discriminating" against a fairly large group of people in Latvia, then going to unnecessary trouble for a much smaller group in Switzerland, for example. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Evita Tetraglot Senior Member Latvia learnlatvian.info Joined 6553 days ago 734 posts - 1036 votes Speaks: Latvian*, English, German, Russian Studies: Korean, Finnish | Message 5 of 22 24 March 2012 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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Oh dear, not the political discussion again! There is a reason why Russian is not an official language in Latvia and you can read all about it in the other thread that's closed now (because it was about politics).
Regarding the software, I think the decision on whether you need to make a Russian version for it should be made by the head of the Latvian branch of the large retail company. If they tell you no then you shouldn't assume you know better just because you've spent some weeks here. This recent referendum has polarized the society but actually there is no hatred between Latvians and Russians, there are a lot of mixed marriages, and more and more children with both parents being Russian are going to Latvian schools because their parents know it'll be better for their future. Back to the software, it really depends on whether the employees are supposed to know Latvian and how well. If they are supposed to know enough to be able to work with the software then you shouldn't make a Russian version. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6440 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 6 of 22 24 March 2012 at 12:56pm | IP Logged | ||
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Plenty of Italian-speakers in Switzerland cannot speak French.
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| viedums Hexaglot Senior Member Thailand Joined 4667 days ago 327 posts - 528 votes Speaks: Latvian, English*, German, Mandarin, Thai, French Studies: Vietnamese | Message 7 of 22 24 March 2012 at 2:40pm | IP Logged | ||
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Your post provides an interesting angle on the vexed question of language politics in Latvia. I wonder if in the Swiss and Finnish cases there was some legislation that mandated that the company provide versions of the software in both languages. Presumably this would be different in Latvia, so that it’s simply the company’s decision. Since it would cost more to provide the extra language, you might expect the company to opt for just Latvian if possible. Of course it depends on the situation on the ground, which is why you are bringing it up. It would really be unfortunate if Russian speakers didn’t get jobs or lost them simply because the software was not in their language. This brings to mind something that happened during the early 1990s in Latvia when I was living there. The Swedish media company Bonnier bought the major newspaper “Diena” which at the time came out in Latvian and Russian versions. Under Bonnier, the Russian version was discontinued. I’m sure this decision was based on considerations of profit and loss, rather than any idea of promoting national integration through having the same news in both languages, which was actually the rationale when Diena was started. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7157 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 8 of 22 24 March 2012 at 10:16pm | IP Logged | ||
It's actually just under 5.5% these days per Statistics Finland. Your figure of 15% is more representative of what it was like about 200 years ago in the early days of the Grand Duchy of Finland. As to Fennoswedes being uniformally able to speak Finnish (define "speak" but that's a somewhat different matter) at least qualitatively doesn't fit any more than all Finns being able to speak Swedish. I remember not a few times getting replied to in English by what turned out to be Fennoswedes after I addressed them and wrote emails to them in Finnish. They confessed that their Finnish was practically useless beyond a few phrases or a vague passive ability and all of this was to me the foreigner whose Finnish is at a basic level. It certainly shattered my preconception of bilingual Finland given the official policy and education where all Finnish students must pass exams in both languages. In addition, the typical Ålander is not likely to know Finnish to any useful level given that education there in Finnish is optional per p. 15 of the Government of Åland's promotional brochure with Swedish and English being obligatory (90% Swedish as a mother tongue while about 5% for Finnish - nearly the polar opposite of what it is for mainland Finland). In addition, Swedish is the only official language on the islands. This also leads me to suspect that the strongly Fennoswedish municipalities can have a majority (or plurality) Finns who for practical purposes can't speak Finnish (for the record, the Fennoswedes I met were around Turku and so I've never got deep into "Fennosweden" on the Ostrobothnian coast) The converse is also true and easy to find especially when you go to Savo or Karelia. A lot of Finns just have no useful base in Swedish but as is common for students in classes where the rational is unconvincing (cf. English Canadian students in mandatory French classes) they just went through the motions in school or studied just enough to get the credits. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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