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English present perfect no longer taught? | ||
Tags: Verbs/Conjugation | English | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| IronFist Senior Member United States Joined 6438 days ago 663 posts - 941 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 1 of 26 27 March 2012 at 2:18am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm talking about native English speakers here
In the last 24 hours I have read the following sentences: "a few years ago I probably would have did it" "I shouldn't have went to the store yesterday" "I should've ate more for lunch" They hurt my ears :( I hear them in spoken English a lot, too. Especially "should've went" and "should've ate." 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Michael K. Senior Member United States Joined 5730 days ago 568 posts - 886 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Esperanto | Message 2 of 26 27 March 2012 at 3:15am | IP Logged | ||
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Present perfect is auxiliary to have + past participle.
The samples you submitted look like conditionals, or possibly subjunctive, I'm not really sure. I'm pretty sure they aren't present perfect. Your samples are certainly ugly English, if not outright bad English. On second thought, they are improper English. For what it's worth, in the grammar class I'm taking this semester, we were taught 9 tenses, with one of them being present perfect (simple present, future, and past, and the three basic tenses in perfect and progressive). Edited by Michael K. on 27 March 2012 at 3:18am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7157 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 3 of 26 27 March 2012 at 3:19am | IP Logged | ||
I think that the bigger problem is that grammar is scarcely taught formally in the Anglosphere to most native speakers. The problem is likely compounded by teachers for these classes who themselves aren't familiar with the details of inflection in English relying instead on "feel" or what "sounds better", having been products of the same educational policy. I didn't actually learn the rationale for the present perfect until I took a course for ESL teachers in adulthood. Thank God though that I've been a stickler for grammar and learned to appreciate solid lessons in it when studying French and German in school. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| GRagazzo Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4962 days ago 115 posts - 168 votes Speaks: Italian, English* Studies: Spanish, Swedish, French | Message 4 of 26 27 March 2012 at 4:08am | IP Logged | ||
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At dinner tonight my little brother (he's 8) said 'I would have did it' and it really got
on my nerves. It just made me cringe! And speaking of native English speakers, the use of good over well makes me annoyed as well. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| getreallanguage Diglot Senior Member Argentina youtube.com/getreall Joined 5472 days ago 240 posts - 371 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Italian, Dutch | Message 5 of 26 27 March 2012 at 4:30am | IP Logged | ||
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Like Michael K. said, these are not examples of the present perfect, rather conditional sentences using 'should' and 'would' as auxiliaries, which in turn feature the auxiliary 'have' plus the past participle in standard English. These sentences are likely extreme examples of a tendency to collapse or unify the past tense forms (did) with the past participle forms (done). I would be surprised if all the verbs at the disposal of the people who do this feature this unification. It's likely that some verbs have it and some don't. This tendency is nothing new: think of verbs like break (if it ain't broke don't fix it) or tear up (it all was tore up when I found it).
These sentences are not standard English by any stretch of the imagination, but luckily for all of us they are easily understandable. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| IronFist Senior Member United States Joined 6438 days ago 663 posts - 941 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 6 of 26 27 March 2012 at 7:53am | IP Logged | ||
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My apologies if I got the name of the tense wrong. I saw it being described as "present perfect" here:
http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/presentperfect.html 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| anamsc Triglot Senior Member Andorra Joined 6204 days ago 296 posts - 382 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Catalan Studies: Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Written), French | Message 7 of 26 27 March 2012 at 7:55am | IP Logged | ||
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I just want to say that normally I talk like that, because that is how the people I grew up with talk. We were taught the "correct" forms in school, though, and I use them in writing and formal speech. I think that this goes hand-in-hand with some other modifications of the past participle that don't necessarily make it align with the past simple (such as 'dranken' and 'aten'). I'm sorry if it hurts your ears, but I don't think it's going away any time soon! Edited by anamsc on 27 March 2012 at 7:59am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 8 of 26 27 March 2012 at 8:00am | IP Logged | ||
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Technically, it's the perfect infinitive.
2 persons have voted this message useful |
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