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Brazilian portuguese | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| Satoshi Diglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5829 days ago 215 posts - 224 votes  Speaks: Portuguese*, English Studies: German, Japanese | Message 9 of 23 16 February 2009 at 3:22am | IP Logged | ||
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Exactly what I was gonna say: one really shouldn't be afraid of the differences.
Specially now that the orthography has been unified throughout most of the lusophone countries. You should keep to one source when you are studying, obviously, but once you've got the basics down, you can go anywhere you like from there. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ChiaBrain Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5814 days ago 402 posts - 512 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish* Studies: Portuguese, Italian, French Studies: German | Message 10 of 23 16 February 2009 at 8:59pm | IP Logged | ||
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Well, I can certainly understand British English and European Spanish. In fact I
actually find that I can understand most Portuguese as long as it is not spoken too fast. This is great news as there is a large Brazilian community around here and after seeing pictures of the Azores... http://www.panoramio.com/map/#lt=37.839426&ln=-25.795024&z=4 &k=2 ...I figure it would be a nice place to practice Portuguese. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Flarioca Heptaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5888 days ago 635 posts - 816 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Esperanto, French, EnglishC2, Spanish, German, Italian Studies: Catalan, Mandarin | Message 11 of 23 16 February 2009 at 10:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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My great grandmother came from Ilha Graciosa and I also have other roots in the Azores.
It seems to be a beautiful place, with many natural wonders and delicious food. Unfortunately, so far I've never been there, but it is certainly on my wish list. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Durben Diglot Groupie Portugal Joined 6625 days ago 42 posts - 45 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English Studies: German | Message 12 of 23 17 February 2009 at 2:58am | IP Logged | ||
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As I said before, there are parts of Azores where you won't understand almost nothing (São Miguel island), but in most islands is standard pronunciation.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ChiaBrain Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5814 days ago 402 posts - 512 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish* Studies: Portuguese, Italian, French Studies: German | Message 13 of 23 21 February 2009 at 4:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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For anyone looking...
The FSI Portuguese courses are Brazilian flavor as are most of the materials I've seen on LingQ. Teach Yourself Portuguese contrasts the Brazilian and European accents on the CD. Edited by ChiaBrain on 21 February 2009 at 4:57pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Jeito Triglot Groupie United States Joined 5823 days ago 55 posts - 63 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Mandarin, German, Italian, Portuguese | Message 14 of 23 21 February 2009 at 11:21pm | IP Logged | ||
Flarioca, That's a very broad statement to make with nothing to back it up, but your opinion. For the sake of brevity, I will limit my response to languages that I have studied. Dante, of course, put the Tuscan dialect on the map, in the 13th century, making it the vernacular, literary standard for the Italian peninsula. The Accademia della Crusca was founded in 1582 to standardize that language. This organization was the inspiration for Cardinal Richelieu who established Academie Francaise in 1634 to do the same thing for the French language. The Academie was very active under Louis XIV when France's greatest authors and playwrights were members. Much of Europe copied Louis XIV's court behavior, including fashion, elevated language and pomp. As a direct imitation of the Academie, Philip V mandated the creation of the Real Academia Espanola in 1713. Not to be left out, Gustav III established the Svesnka Akadamien in 1786. What was the work and purpose of these linguistic academies? A national language was an important unifying force in the creation of the modern nation state. Their task was to standardize the language, purify it, elevate it. They wrote the grammar books, compiled the dictionaries, fussed over vocabulary and usage. The were regarded as the imminent authorities of correct usage. And what language did they seek to elevate? The speech of swineherds and innkeepers? No, it was the language of the aristocracy and the royal courts. Your example of Germany does not hold up in this context because Germany did not become a single unified country until the late 19th Century. There was no central government or ruling family as in France, England, or Spain and subsequently no push in Germany for a standard language. Plus Germany is a significantly larger country than Portugual with more isolating geographic features like mountains. Large linguistic variations should be no surprise. England never established a royal academy on the order of the other great monarchies. But by historical development, the most prestigious way speaking the language is an imitation, of the aristocratic classes. To this day, excruciatingly correct grammar and diction is called the Queen's or King's, (whoever is on the throne) English. We say it even in the U.S. where we have neither. I reiterate what I said. Royalty and aristocracy heavily influenced the modern forms of most European languages. To take my argument even further, the establishment of the linguistic academies and the subsequent standardization of language happened too late to have been direct factors in how European languages developed when they arrived in North and South America. That is why English, Spanish, and French of the Western Hemisphere vary considerably from how they are spoken in the countries of their origin. I do not make this claim for Portuguese, since I lack the information to do so. But I stick by my contention that the variances still warrant different courses and teaching materials. Edited by Jeito on 21 February 2009 at 11:22pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Flarioca Heptaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5888 days ago 635 posts - 816 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Esperanto, French, EnglishC2, Spanish, German, Italian Studies: Catalan, Mandarin | Message 15 of 23 22 February 2009 at 4:27am | IP Logged | ||
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Let me start by restating what is more relevant for me in this thread:
It is a TOTAL waste of time for a beginner to care much about regional differences. All languages have regional differences. Portuguese and Spanish show a much less significant variation than many other languages, like German and Russian. I know how Portuguese is spoken in my own country and in Portugal. I speak Spanish and have talked a lot to many Spanish speaking people from various countries, Spain among them. And I have been studying German and Russian. My opinion is based on my own expericence, but also on what anyone can read in many books. As far as I understand, almost everything we talk is only opinion, even when it comes from experts, real or not. You'll keep yours, of course. Italy was not an unified country either, but I guess you certainly know it. For sure, royal acts and actions as well as those from aristocracy have had huge influence throughout history. However, if kings and aristocracy could shape everything at their will so easily, language among them, we probably wouldn't listen anymore to Catalan, Galician and Basque in Spain as well as Basque, Occitan, Breton and Provençal in France. Back to the main point: For anyone interested to begin learning Portuguese: Don't worry much about regional differences in Portuguese. Edited by Flarioca on 22 February 2009 at 4:28am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| William Camden Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6278 days ago 1936 posts - 2333 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French | Message 16 of 23 22 February 2009 at 11:48am | IP Logged | ||
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Russian actually has relatively few dialect variations, especially considering the huge territory over which it is spoken. But certainly there are some.
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