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Some questions on Spanish... | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| Crush Tetraglot Senior Member ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5871 days ago 1622 posts - 2299 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Esperanto Studies: Basque | Message 1 of 9 26 August 2009 at 5:26am | IP Logged | ||
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Here is part of a list of questions I have had about Spanish for a little while that I just haven't been able to make sense of. Most (all?) of the sentences are pulled from Platiquemos.
1. Se lo llevaron. Me tomé el café. These may be different structures, I'm not sure. In the first one, I have no idea why "se" is there. In the second, I think it is a sort of emphasizer? Is there any difference in the English translation of lo tomé/me lo tomé (or rather, what is the difference?)? 2. Se empleó a 3 muchachas. When using the passive tense in reference to multiple people, is the verb always conjugated in the singular? Se trajo (sg) a los especialistas vs. Se cantaron (pl) canciones. 3. El tráfico ha sido interrumpido, que pasará? Será un choque. Estaría borracho y habrá querido pasar entre dos árboles cuando había sólo uno. "Traffic has been stopped, I wonder what's going on?" "It's probably a car accident." "He was probably drunk and wanted to go between two trees when there was only one." Ok. I think I get a general idea of this (using the future tense for "I wonder..." or "Probably...", conditional for the imperfect versions, future perfect for preterite/whatever the haber+ido/ado tense is called versions), but I just can't internalize this. My first instinct upon hearing something like ¿Qué pasará? is to ask ¿Cuando?. Even in reading, I can't always tell if it is this "probability mood" or the future/conditional/etc. and I now ALWAYS have to stop and think about it. Is there a site that explains this (explanations in Spanish are fine) or where I can practice it? 4. Probablemente lo sepan/saben también. I assume using the indicative here means you are more certain, but to what degree? The only example I can think of where it might make sense to use the indicative would be as a sort of sarcastic remark (where the answer is obvious): "Which leg did he break?" "He probably broke the one with the cast on it." Thanks :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6017 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 2 of 9 26 August 2009 at 11:14am | IP Logged | ||
In the passive, you always count the item that's affected. In English, The companies are closing the factories. and The company is closing the factories both become "the factories are being closed" in the passive. It doesn't matter how many people are involved in actually doing it, as we're not talking about them. The same follows in Spanish. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Javi Senior Member Spain Joined 5987 days ago 419 posts - 548 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 3 of 9 26 August 2009 at 1:33pm | IP Logged | ||
Hi, I only have time now to answer your first question, sorry about that. In the first case the se has no grammatical function, it's just part of the verb llevarse: llevarse algo/a alguien = to take something/someone with you. The verbs that take an unstressed pronoun are called pronominal verbs. A few of them are always pronomminal, like arrepentirse, while the rest can work that way depending on the context. In this case llevar is pronominal. In the other case, you have pairs like tomar/tomarse, comer/comerse or beber/beberse. The difference is syntactic rather than semantic. Native speakers normally prefer the pronominal form when they talk about a definite quantity of food or liquid. That way you say: Me gusta tomar café por las mañanas. Ya he tomado café, gracias. Todavía no me he tomado el café. Edited by Javi on 26 August 2009 at 1:36pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Crush Tetraglot Senior Member ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5871 days ago 1622 posts - 2299 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Esperanto Studies: Basque | Message 4 of 9 26 August 2009 at 11:51pm | IP Logged | ||
Se llevó a la profesora al aeropuerto. Se envió a Pablo al Uruguay. No se trajo a los especialistas. No se ha visto a la oficinista hoy. Se buscaba al nuevo empleado. Se quería mucho a la jefa. Se espera al chofer. Is it instead "it was brought to the specialists"? (Se trajo a los especialistas). @Javi: Thanks for the response. I never thought that it might be a pronomial verb, after searching Wordreference I think I have a better idea of the distinction between llevar/llevarse. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| rggg Heptaglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 6331 days ago 373 posts - 426 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English, French, Italian, Portuguese, Indonesian, Malay Studies: Romanian, Catalan, Greek, German, Swedish | Message 5 of 9 28 August 2009 at 5:41am | IP Logged | ||
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Hi Crush
About question number 3: In your example "El tráfico ....... ¿qué pasará?" "Pasará" is a future verb form and it's expressing worry or concern about something happening in the present, most verbs can't be used this way, but some like "pasar", "estar" and "ser" can. - Escucho mucho ruido en la calle ¿qué pasará? In this case "¿qué pasará?" = "¿qué estará pasando?" = "¿qué está pasando?" - Todavía no ha llegado ¿dónde estará? ¿dónde estará? = "¿dónde andará?" - Algo huele mal ¿qué será? ¿qué será? = ¿qué podrá ser" Just additional information, remember to be careful with: "pasará" [pasaRÁ] (futuro) "pasara" [paSAra] (imperfecto del sujuntivo) Take care!!! Edited by rggg on 28 August 2009 at 5:42am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Crush Tetraglot Senior Member ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5871 days ago 1622 posts - 2299 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Esperanto Studies: Basque | Message 6 of 9 29 August 2009 at 2:46pm | IP Logged | ||
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Oh alright, I was under the impression that any verb could be used that way. Thanks a lot rggg :)
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| rggg Heptaglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 6331 days ago 373 posts - 426 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English, French, Italian, Portuguese, Indonesian, Malay Studies: Romanian, Catalan, Greek, German, Swedish | Message 7 of 9 29 August 2009 at 7:28pm | IP Logged | ||
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Just to complicate things a little bit =) ...... some other examples:
- Ella parece ser una ejecutiva exitosa ¿dónde trabajará? - Siempre tienen deliciosas manzanas en su casa ¿dónde las comprarán? - Ella parece ser muy joven ¿cuántos años tendrá? - Parece asustado ¿porqué será? - Mira, están platicando ¿qué le dirá? - La casa está impecable ¿cómo la limpiarán? Some other sentences using that same structure: - La puerta se ve como nueva ¿dónde la pintarán? *WRONG* - Los niños tienen tarea ¿dónde la harán? *FUTURO* - Los niños tienen tarea ¿cómo la harán? *FUTURO* - No está en su oficina ¿cuándo llegará? *FUTURO* - La casa está sucia ¿cuándo la limpiarán? *FUTURO* - No sabemos conducir ¿quién nos llevará? *FUTURO* - Ellos necesitan apoyo ¿quién los ayudará? *FUTURO* - Están tratando de terminarlo ellos solos ¿cómo podrán hacerlo? *FUTURO* Uff, I hope I'm not making it worse for you =) Take care Edited by rggg on 29 August 2009 at 7:29pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Crush Tetraglot Senior Member ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5871 days ago 1622 posts - 2299 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Esperanto Studies: Basque | Message 8 of 9 31 August 2009 at 6:38pm | IP Logged | ||
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Well I think being able to reliably discern when it is future and when it is present will take a while, for example in the sentence:
Mira, están platicando ¿qué le dirá? I'd probably think it means "look, they're talking, what will (s)he tell him/her?", which really isn't that far in meaning from "what is (s)he telling him/her?", at least in this instance. Thanks for the examples and the contrast between future/present, I think I'm starting to get a feel for it. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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