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Japanese for holidays? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Quique Diglot Senior Member Spain cronopios.net/Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4686 days ago 183 posts - 313 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: French, German | Message 1 of 13 01 February 2012 at 10:08am | IP Logged |
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Hi,
in three months I shall be going to Japan for a 3-week vacation. I've read that many Japanese do not know English at all, and those who do are often unable (or daring) to speak it, and even if they do, their pronunciation is difficult to understand. Can anybody who's been in Japan confirm or deny this? So my question is: should I learn some basic Japanese (say Michel Thomas or Pimsleur) just for those 3 weeks? Or will I be able to get by with English? Please notice that I'm not interested long-term in Japanese (well, maybe the trip will change my mind...). Currently I'm actively learning German. If I were to learn some Japanese, should I stop studying German until the trip, or do you think it's posible to learn both languages at the same time? I guess that, belonging to completely different families, the only problem would be the time I can devote to them. According to the Foreign Service Institute, Japanese is the hardest language to learn. Would 3 months be enough to get some traveller's Japanese, or trying would it be a waste of time? (Of course I don't expect to learn any kanji, just to book accomodations, order meals, buy train tickets, and the like). Thank you for your advice! 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Superking Diglot Groupie United States polyglutwastaken.blo Joined 6647 days ago 87 posts - 194 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Mandarin | Message 2 of 13 01 February 2012 at 3:51pm | IP Logged |
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The question of whether you should learn some basic Japanese for your trip is really up to you.
What I will suggest, if you're interested in just learning some survival Japanese, is not to spend any significant time on the writing system. The spoken language is really not all that bad, but the writing system can take months just to get the basics down. I suspect that if you really bear down on it, you could get enough Japanese in 3 months to help you out on a 3-week vacation. And I don't think studying concurrently with German will mess you up, considering how different the two languages are. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| nway Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/Vic Joined 5419 days ago 574 posts - 1707 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean | Message 3 of 13 01 February 2012 at 6:58pm | IP Logged |
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I think it'd be hard for anyone on this forum not to recommend learning a new language—even if only for the short-term. Going to a country that speaks a different language is a wonderful opportunity to engage with that language in a way that you'd never be able to back home (and in Japanese's case, anywhere else in the world), and every little bit makes a difference, whether it's simply recognizing certain words you hear on the street, or successfully making a request (like asking for directions) or completing a transaction (like purchasing a souvenir or a meal) entirely in the language.
You will almost certainly not be able to maintain any kind of conversation (responding to unanticipated feedback) in Japanese in three months' time. But if you complete, for example, the Michel Thomas course (13.6 hours of original material—best listened to two or three times), you'll be able to conjugate the following verb patterns, using "eat" as an example: - You eat. - You don't eat. - Won't you eat? - Let's eat. - Shall we eat? - I'd like to eat. - I ate. - I didn't eat. - While eating, I (other verb). - Didn't you eat? - I eat/ate and (other verb). ...and several other formations, across over a dozen of the most common verbs, as well as the following sentence functions: - indicating a subject (Tokyo is a clean and beautiful city.) - indicating a destination (I want to take a train to Hiroshima.) - indicating a means (Can you speak to me tomorrow via phone?) - indicating a location (I'm drinking sake at the sushi restaurant.) - indicating a possession (Is this your delicious French wine?) - indicating a description (Do you have any interesting books?.) - indicating a sequence (Let's buy these flowers and then watch a film.) - indicating a location (Where are convenient Tokyo bus maps in English?) - indication a selection (I don't read kana, so that is not convenient.) - indicating a partnership (I bought a camera with her.) ...and several other structures. (Note that you'll have learned all the above vocabulary in the course.) As you can see, you'll be able to say quite a lot with a mere 13.6 hours of original material, and assuming you listen to each track two additional times for reinforcement, that's a maximum of 40.8 hours across three months, which amounts to just over a half hour per day, so unless you're really short of time, you probably won't even necessarily have to put your German studies completely on hold. Also, hiragana and katakana are relatively straightforward syllabaries, so you'll probably also have enough time to learn them as well, if only to get the pleasure of being able to phonetically reproduce any text you see that isn't accompanied by romaji. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |
| ericspinelli Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5787 days ago 249 posts - 493 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Korean, Italian | Message 4 of 13 02 February 2012 at 3:21am | IP Logged |
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Most Japanese have completed a compulsory 3 years of middle school English, with a
majority having completed 6 to 8 years. If you are patient and stick to large cities and tourist destinations you should have no problem getting by with English. Your success mostly depends on you: your attitude, your expectations, and the way you speak. When speaking English in Japan, simple is better and, when really pressed, writing is more effective than speech. "Which train to Tokyo Station?" works. "You wouldn't happen to know which line I need to take to get to Tokyo Station, would you?" doesn't. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| MrsMime Diglot Newbie CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4704 days ago 7 posts - 9 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Russian, Japanese | Message 5 of 13 02 February 2012 at 7:33pm | IP Logged |
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+1 to what nway said. All excellent advice.
I would also like to suggest you do learn some hiragana or katakana (katakana especially, since katakana is mostly used for English loan words; if you can read the katakana, you're highly likely to know what it means). They are quite straightforward, and even picking up a couple apps from the Android or Apple app store will have you understanding them pretty quickly. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| hjordis Senior Member United States snapshotsoftheworld. Joined 5190 days ago 209 posts - 264 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 6 of 13 03 February 2012 at 5:44am | IP Logged |
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I suppose it's up to you and depends on where you're going(like eric said, stick to big cities, though you probably would anywyas). Personally, I like to know at least SOME of a language before going to a country where it's spoken.
You should probably use a course that is aimed towards travelers if you do decide to learn some Japanese, considering your lack of interest in pursuing the language further. If you just use a normal entry level textbook it might teach a lot of things that are irrelevant, like weather or animals when you want survival Japanese. I don't know what the best course for that would be though. Off topic: I'm also going to Japan for a 3 week vacation in 3 months. :o 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5385 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 7 of 13 03 February 2012 at 4:05pm | IP Logged |
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I first went to Japan after 6 months of study, and knowing a bit of the language helped me tremendously.
Despite what a lot of people say, I found that very few people were willing to use English, even in places where you'd have expected it, such as at the ticket counter for the train leaving the airport or at the JR office where foreigners must go to exchange their train pass receipt for the actual pass. This last one baffled me: I had to order tickets for a complex itinerary with what little Japanese I knew and a lot of pointing. Grant it, I didn't press the issue and perhaps someone else in the office could have come to help but it wasn't offered -- and I was happy to give it a try. It's true that they all have some high school instruction in the language, but that doesn't mean much -- most English Canadians studied some French in school, but you'd be hardpressed to get them to help you in French. Of course, we also know that many foreigners live in Tokyo for years without learning the language, so it must be possible, but they are also quite dependent on their Japanese speaking friends, and this would be increasingly difficult as you left the city. I once entered the train station going in the wrong direction so I went right back out and asked the station attendant (in Japanese) if he spoke English -- he said no, but that he could understand a bit. So I explained clearly and slowly in English, he understood and let me through. On the other hand, when I was in small stations in Kansai (either outside of Osaka or Kyoto), the attendants never spoke English and I had to know enough to buy a ticket or ask how to get to station X. They were always patient and helpful though. I really think that the Japanese appreciate the fact that a tourist has bothered to learn some Japanese, and they are a lot more likely to make an effort to help you if you first address them in Japanese. They understand how hard it is, and they often meet foreigners who live in Japan and can't speak Japanese. I also stayed with host families and friends' families who spoke very little English, but were willing to make an effort, because I too was making an effort. These kinds of situations allow the best in people to come out and make for wonderful experiences. Japan (and its people) can be a very hermetic country, but it can also be a memorable experience and I think learning the language is going to make the trip that much more enjoyable. Learning Japanese takes a long time, so if you do intend to study it for the trip, I'd put German aside since 3 months is not a very long time. Edited by Arekkusu on 03 February 2012 at 4:05pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | |
| hjordis Senior Member United States snapshotsoftheworld. Joined 5190 days ago 209 posts - 264 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 8 of 13 03 February 2012 at 11:09pm | IP Logged |
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What arekkusu said doesn't surprise me, and is consistent with what I've heard from others. That also brings up another point I forgot: at the very least learn how to ask if someone speaks English!
1 person has voted this message useful |
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