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When does Japanese go right to left? pic | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| IronFist Senior Member United States Joined 6438 days ago 663 posts - 941 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 1 of 3 12 February 2012 at 8:14am | IP Logged |
So I was at Mitsuwa Japanese Marketplace this evening for dinner, and they have a ramen shop there. The sign looked a bit strange to me because it looked like this:
I've only seen Japanese go right to left vertically, and left to right lines horizontally like English, but this sign appears to say "ramen" going from right to left horizontally. Also, it appears to have a dash ("1"? Katakana-style vowel doubler?) after the "ra." Is this some old traditional thing? Also, apparently the name of the place is 山頭火, but the sign says 火頭山. Can someone explain to me why it says: んめーら instead of らーめん Also, just so I'm clear, the noodles are "raamen" and not "ramen," right? If so, when is a horizontal dash used as a vowel doubler in hiragana? That's a katakana thing, isn't it? I see it as ラーメン in katakana. Thanks! Edited by IronFist on 12 February 2012 at 8:17am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| egill Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5697 days ago 418 posts - 791 votes Speaks: Mandarin, English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 2 of 3 12 February 2012 at 9:22am | IP Logged |
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How coincidental, I was at a Mitsuwa just this afternoon and saw the same sign.
Wiki says: Regarding ー, “The symbol is sometimes used with hiragana, for example in the signs of ramen restaurants, which are sometimes written ら ーめん in hiragana. However, usually, hiragana does not use the chōonpu but another vowel kana to express this sound.” Regarding horizontal right to left, “Historically, vertical writing was the standard system, and horizontal writing was only used where a sign had to fit in a constrained space, such as over the gate of a temple or the signboard of a shop. This horizontal writing is in fact a special case of vertical writing in which each column contains just one character. Therefore, before the end of World War II in Japan, those signs were read right to left. ... However, right-to-left horizontal writing is still seen in these scripts, in such places as signs, on the right-hand side of vehicles, and on the right-hand side of stands selling food at festivals. It is also used to simulate archaic writing, for example in reconstructions of old Japan for tourists, and it is still found in the captions and titles of some newspapers.” Hope that's helpful. 6 persons have voted this message useful | |
| IronFist Senior Member United States Joined 6438 days ago 663 posts - 941 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 3 of 3 12 February 2012 at 6:19pm | IP Logged |
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Yes that makes sense. Thanks. To be honest I probably wouldn't have even realized it had it not ended with ん.
I know words cannot begin with ん, so when I saw that hiragana apparently at the "beginning" of the word, it caught my attention. I also didn't know that ramen was spelled "raamen" rather than "ramen" until last night. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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