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COMMON SCRIPT FOR ALL LANGUAGES | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| obara Newbie India subramanian-obula.blRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5974 days ago 21 posts - 22 votes Studies: Gujarati | Message 33 of 40 21 October 2008 at 10:10pm | IP Logged | ||
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I still believe that a number of world languages can be learnt through Roman script with simple diacritic marks. Vocabulary and sentence structures can be learnt through books.
Pronunciation of the words can be learnt through audio material and further correction can be done while actually moving with the native speakers. For a grown up person like me, learning 2000 essential kanji is not possible and it is not worthwhile to spend so much time. I am concerned with Tourist only and for those people who stay in a country for short duration like six months or one year. Writing Top to Bottom and Right to Left are not in tune with the general system of writing horizontally from Left to Right. If anybody has succeeded with learning spoken language with the help of Roman script can throw more light. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| SamD Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6667 days ago 823 posts - 987 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Portuguese, Norwegian | Message 34 of 40 22 October 2008 at 8:53am | IP Logged | ||
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I agree that kanji and new scripts are not easy to learn, but most tourists who stay in a country as long as six months will need to be able to read at least a rather basic level. If I spent even a month in a country, I would want to be able to read signs at the very least. I don't know enough about Japanese to be able to say how many kanji I would need, but I would want some sort of basic knowledge.
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| TEMU Newbie United States Joined 5580 days ago 5 posts - 2 votes Speaks: English* | Message 35 of 40 23 August 2009 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | ||
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We are not concerned with the difficulty or easiness of a particular script. OBARA(from India?) I like your style. You seem to be "one" of the few people who UNDERSTANDS this topic: COMMON SCRIPTS and the reasons for (and against) a "Universal standard of communication. I have been working on this for almost 20 years. I believe I am probably 95% closer to that reality...I was seeking other "collaboraters" but most people seem to be DOUBTERS and DEFEATIST...Skeptics and Pessimist will always see the NEGATIVE side of anything. I'm NOT saying that constructive criticism is unwarranted...I'm just saying: Lets FIX the problem "ONLY" after we first address(examine) the root cause!!
.....The I.P.A. was used as an ingredient of my work in the beginning stages..although its NOT perfect...I was able to expand upon it...I was able to read,learn,apply other trends and proven techniques...therefor having an "opened" mind allowed me to blend these "real world" uses into a STANDARD PROTOCOL understood by 98% of the worlds inhabitants. Why not 100%??...Well, there are at least 32 common scripts representing all the "MAJOR" (significant) languages used in everyday communication...If you speak,write,or know any lingua outside of this community...you are isolated from world affairs...If there are those of Ba'Ha'I Faith or any one "brave" or serious enough about this important necessity to PRESERVE humankind please let me know...Let's Quit this "NATIVE HISTORY"..."UNIQUE CUSTOM" crap...Let ONE SCRIPT be just that...ONE CHARACTER for any BASIC HUMAN Phoneme(having one utterance)..which in my estimate is no more than 50...(all that other "tonal" double/triple sounded stuff is irrelevant)...The letter/character 'T' is the same sound in every language but the word 'Tea' canNOT be spelled with one letter/character; There must be a consonant and a vowel, therfore; in this example there are TWO separate utterances "Ti" & "E" fused together...If it takes more character or less characters to "translate" a language WHO CARES??...the ultimate goal is to "better" speak, write and understand one another.PERIOD. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lizzern Diglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5917 days ago 791 posts - 1053 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English Studies: Japanese | Message 36 of 40 23 August 2009 at 1:28pm | IP Logged | ||
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That's a pretty simplistic approach and isn't likely to work imo.
Look into Hindi and you'll quickly find that not all Ts are the same. Actually, I can think of at least 3 ways to pronounce T that I use in my everyday speech in Norwegian, and that's just one language. PROBLEM. That's not even going into vowels, which is probably pretty close to a continuous spectrum in Norwegian, and certainly if you look at all languages then I would think you could find just about every possible vowel. Tone does matter an awful lot, but it doesn't necessarily have to be represented in writing, that's true - again, Norwegian, we don't mark tones in our writing. Representing the vast amount of different sounds from so many different languages, with any degree of accuracy with only 50 letters... simply can't be done. And I'm not sure if the current system is so unbearable that we would need to do something like that. Have a look at the 'Most beautiful script' thread, people LIKE having more than one script in the world. I know I do. Liz 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| TEMU Newbie United States Joined 5580 days ago 5 posts - 2 votes Speaks: English* | Message 37 of 40 23 August 2009 at 2:21pm | IP Logged | ||
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WOW!...You hit the nail right on the head...the key to any hope at achieving a "common script" is to focus on the word 'script'...A written character or set of symbols used to express "visually" what is "audibly" heard from one that speaks(utters such sounds)...The Common thread is WRITING,corresponding,reporting,printing,typing,noting,texti ng,blogging,etc.etc...THINGS WE do almost daily at one point or another...I can't "speak" the language in 5 years time even if there was a common script...but I can "understand" what is "meant" to be communicated if I recognized the familiar standards of my own tongue...if such standards were "universally" adhered to...this includes grammatical as well as vocabulary protocols...OBARA wrote that he was looking for those interested in fulfilling this dream of united "writing" standards of communication..I am a life long volunteer...People like yourself dwell on the "beauty" and "uniqueness" or "native" identification of ancient customs and histories..and would be hard pressed to relenquish solvereignty and self-supporting favoritisms that makes "Western Culture" so Self-Centered and NOT inclusive because there is "little use" or "little need" for that "other than" what your dominance demand or deem worthy...I say this with some sadness: If you were "stuck" in a country UNFAMILIAR to you and there was a crisis situation...and you needed to respond to questions whose answers meant Life or death...Not "knowing" the language may get you killed...Basic or intermediate command of the pronunciations in speech may buy you time (in or out of prison)...But being able to write in "familiar script" that transcends a languages' grammatical syntax,word pronunciation,syllablication,vocabular definition,sentence structure,etc...may enable you to "reason" or to some degree "assert" your innoncence and "persuade" your interrogators that any such "miscalculation" or false accusations may cast "brimstones" of judgement on there own heads...Lets STOP finding excuses for NOT having an "easy" and familiar UNIVERSAL alphabet and work toward a solution that will allow a captive to write " I APOLOGIZE if I seem out of place but if you give me something to write upon...I can better EXPLAIN..." and by doing this more of us can taste true freedom.
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| Lizzern Diglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5917 days ago 791 posts - 1053 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English Studies: Japanese | Message 38 of 40 23 August 2009 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | ||
I laughed a bit at this because you totally picked the wrong person to pick on here... Perhaps I should have mentioned that I am not particularly charmed by or attached to the Roman alphabet we currently use and would be happy if we were to switch to another one, in fact I have at times found myself a bit saddened by how little beauty there is in the way we write and then looking at how lucky speakers of some languages are that they get to use such beautiful writing systems. Yes I would celebrate our differences rather than wish them away, because I do have an appreciation for differences in language and a fascination with writing systems different than our own. I wouldn't want a world where we all spoke or wrote the same. Other than that you're talking about hypothetical situations that have nothing to do with the matter at hand. Stay on topic, most of us aren't prisoner begging for our lives to be spared, and even so a common script would still not deal with the problem that you would be writing your own language in it and might not be understood anyway. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding you - having a common system that expressed the exact same concept in the same way regardless of how the same thing was pronounced in each language it was used by, now that's an interesting concept. An impossibly big project, but interesting nonetheless. Liz Edited by Lizzern on 23 August 2009 at 2:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| dbh2ppa Diglot Groupie Costa Rica Joined 5696 days ago 44 posts - 74 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Italian, Japanese, Sign Language | Message 39 of 40 26 August 2009 at 5:36am | IP Logged | ||
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hmm... what about non-phonetic languages? how would you go about encoding ASL (or any other signed language for that matter) into a script? you can't do it phonetically, so you'd have to develop characters for facial expressions, hand gestures, movement, speed, the loci system, movements of the mouth that generate no sound but have meaning... plus, it's non-linear, so you'd have to find a way to show that various characters are being used at the same time...
then there's "silbo gomero" which, though it has a romanization, would need new symbols, since the sounds are in no way related to the letters used to represent them. (I know, silbo gomero is not a language per se, but it is an "accent" or a "variant" of Spanish, different from most Spanish variants, with completely different sounds.)
Well, there are certain variants of the roman alphabet that are quite beautiful (i personally love blackletter calligraphy and, and like to use spencerian script when i don't have the time or tools to do blackletter, and it's pretty enough) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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