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Vietnamese from scratch | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| SlickAs Tetraglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5880 days ago 185 posts - 287 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, French, Swedish Studies: Thai, Vietnamese | Message 9 of 12 15 February 2009 at 9:12pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have spent some more time with FSI, and am about to turn back to Pimsleur. Seems like a regression to inferior learning methods, but let me explain my logic for a second.
The problem with learning from TYS / Colloquial (or Assimil) is that the delivery time is wrong for me. It will give me a good amount of Vietnamese in 6 months, but nothing tomorrow. I have no question that the method the least total study-time to intermediate level (and advanced) is via the path of TYS / Colloquial / Assimil … passive understanding, peeling layers off your understanding of the language, moving towards shadowing, and eventually to full active usage. That is all well and good if you plan to spend 6 months or so alone with the language, and then later will “activate” it by walking out of the house and speaking it, straight into complete sentences with decent pronunciation at some stage in the future. But for my needs with this language, it is a bit different. In 2 months time I will have the chance to spend 3 or 4 weeks immersed in the language in Vietnam. That chance will not come again any time soon. Further, I am currently living in a city with a huge Vietnamese community, and will be moving to somewhere with a much smaller one after visiting Vietnam. Now Pimsleur is an attractive programme for many beginner learners because it gives you instant delivery. Spend a half hour with it, and it will teach you some greetings and to say “I speak a little bit of <language>”. Spend a bit longer with it, and it will deliver more stuff you can say and instantly use even if it is a bit “phrase book style” learning. FSI is in between. First dialogue is more complex than Pimsleur, grammar points are introduced, substitution drills are done … you are aware that what you have learned is embryonic, but it does get you speaking, at least in terms of repeating what you have heard and substitution drills. Perhaps working with it for a month will give you some sort of delivery you can use. TYS / Colloquial do not really get you speaking at first. The delivery time on it is a much further off point in the future. Now, what I want to do, is get out there into the Vietnamese markets here in Melbourne with extremely-broken Vietnamese saying “Hello” and “what do you call this in Vietnamese” and “I only speak a little bit” and “How much?” and “Thank-you”. Like I want to test it … use it as I go. Having spent some 10 or 15 hours with TYS / Colloquial, I was at a Vietnamese market on Saturday, as I am most weekends. I didn’t say a word. Because I am learning too big a chunk. I understand the entire chunk a little bit but can’t use any of it. That does not suit my needs at the moment. So without throwing away the TYS / Colloquial, I am going to move my emphasis to Pimsleur / FSI to give me the confidence to use it just a little. I will continue with the TYS and Colloquial, but as secondary sources, at least until I have finished the Pimsleur (there are only 10 lessons for Vietnamese), and gotten half way through the FSI Vietnamese (and it is not a complete course like the FSI French, etc either). This so that I can use it. Give me concrete situations in my mind where after a little exchange I can say to myself “I wish I had said …” and look up the words. Learn with interest and a context in something I can apply immediately. The last thing I want to do is step off into Vietnam without ever having spoken a word because I had been waiting for delivery from a system with a longer delivery time like TYS / Colloquial. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Qinshi Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5756 days ago 115 posts - 183 votes Speaks: Vietnamese*, English Studies: French, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 10 of 12 26 February 2009 at 11:53am | IP Logged | ||
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If you ever need help with any aspect of Vietnamese, just send me an e-mail at debzaqty@hotmail.com and I'd gladly help you.
Chúc bạn may mắn và mông bạn sẽ thành công trên con đường học tiếng Việt! In other words, Good luck! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| SlickAs Tetraglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5880 days ago 185 posts - 287 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French, Swedish Studies: Thai, Vietnamese | Message 11 of 12 20 March 2009 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have got caught up in other things in the last month and had very little time to spend with Vietnamese.
But in the last couple of days I have re-visited it. I finished the 10 lessons of Pimsleur, and have started back again on the FSI (and I now see the large difference in pronunciation between the South and North). But more importantly, I broke the ice on Victoria St on Wednesday. I feel goofy speaking to someone bi-lingual in Vietnamese, but in a Fish monger on Victoria St, came to a woman who did not speak English well enough to answer a question. I called her "ba" which was apparently too old for her. Qinshi, I would love to take you up on your offer, and my first question is what I should call people. They teach me ong, anh, ba, and co only. Obviously not enough. If I were speaking to you, what would I call you? To a child? A teen-ager? To someone in their late 30's. 40's. 50's. older? The books dont teach me this. Is it an insult to call someone older than they are (like a woman)? Or to call a man younger than he is (not respecting elders)? ANy help you can give me will be appreciated. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Qinshi Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5756 days ago 115 posts - 183 votes Speaks: Vietnamese*, English Studies: French, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 12 of 12 22 March 2009 at 10:58am | IP Logged | ||
This is all too common a belief for learners. Vietnamese people address one another in a hierarchical manner as reflected by the culture. Hence, it is not uncommon for a person to ask for your age as it allows them to decide how to address you appropriately. Remember that for beginners, this concept may be quite confusing and complex. >In the first instance, it is unlikely you would have asked for her age unless you expect to be a regular customer. For the first time, even if you addressed her incorrectly, so long as you have reasonable justification such as "she looks mature enough" etc. If she appears that old, then bà is perfectly fine, if not use cô. Also, it's quite normal for an old person to call teenage to adult males as cậu as in uncle. >Well if you were addressing me, it would depend on your age as compared to mine. I'm only 17 so (I'm assuming you are a male) if you're younger than me you would address me as anh (older brother) or bạn (friend) is perfectly fine. If you are older than me and you are no older than about 30, you would address me as em (young sibling) or as bạn (friend) and I would call you anh (older brother). Referring to each other as friend is generally when a pair has just met or doesn't know each other well. However, if you are about 35+ so slightly younger than my parents, I would have to call you chú (father's younger brother) and you could call me con (child) or cưng (adorable one). Moving further upwards, if you are older than my parents (specifically my father), you'd still call me the same things, but I'd call you bác (father's older brother). I doubt this, but if you are an old man, you'd assume the title of ông (old man) and you could call me con (child) or cháu (grandchild). If all that's confusing you, here's a neater presentation: My title / your title / context anh, bạn / em, bạn / I'm older than you em, bạn / anh, bạn / I'm slightly younger than you con, cưng / chú / You are slightly younger than my parents (specifically father) con, cưng / bác / You are slightly older than my parents con, cháu / You are an old man >A lot of titles assumed in Vietnamese are interfamilial aka in the family. If you are not a Vietnamese then it isn't necessary to know all of these, however, some of them are regularly used outside of family contexts such as chú, bác etc. I'll list them all though. Here is a list of most of the interfamily titles: em - younger sibling em gái - younger sister em trai - younger brother anh - older brother chị - older sister cha/ba - father mẹ/má - mother cháu - grandchild/nephew, niece/cousin *however you would refer to your own cousins as if they were your brothers and sisters cháu ngoại - cousin on mother's side cháu nội - cousin on father's side ngoại - Mother's side ông ngoại - mother's father bà ngoại - mother's mother cô - mother's older sister dì - mother's younger sister dượng - husband of cô/dì cậu - mother's brother regardless of age mợ - wife of cậu nội - Father's side ông nội - father's father bà nội - father's mother chú - father's younger brother bác - father's older brother thím - wife of chú *wife of bác would also be referred to as bác interestingly ông cố/cốc - great grandfather bà cố/cốc - great grandmother Ok, that will definitely seem like a lot to take in but after a while it becomes next to natural. >If you're talking to a teenager, use the example of how we would address each other all the way above. Another interesting thing about Vietnamese people addressing one another is that it's quite common for family members to call each other in terms of rank in terms of birth order. Eg. The oldest brother or sister is called anh or chị cả in the north, and anh or chị hai in the south. Most of the titles in Vietnamese are paired up. So for instance anh/chị, chú/cô etc. so they are similar in status and age however, Vietnam as a direct influence from Chinese culture has since assumed a more patriarchal society. It's also quite friendly to call each other by name, replacing even your own title. Eg. Andy đang làm gì đó?...Andy is doing what? Andy đang coi phim...Andy is watching a film. A proper translation would be: What are you doing? I am watching a film. >However, stick to the titles when addressing elderly people as seniority is respected in Vietnamese culture. Another thing is that Vietnamese can replace status titles by certain professions. This is probably too much to take in so I won't comment on it thus far. Edited by Qinshi on 22 March 2009 at 11:42am 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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