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"nakucha" = "nai to ikemasen"? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| Sunja Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6093 days ago 2020 posts - 2295 votes  1 sounds Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Mandarin | Message 1 of 9 26 June 2009 at 10:02am | IP Logged | |||||
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Hello,
I'm just trying to get something straight for my studies. お母さん：太郎、明日、朝８時に起こしたら いいよね？ 太郎：あ、お母さん、実は予定が変わって、 明日の朝８時に学校で友たちと待ち合わせす ることにしたんだよ。 お母さん：え？本当？それなら遅くとも７時 には起きなきゃ。 太郎：顔洗って朝ごはん食べるのに３０分位 はかかるから・・・ お母さん：まあ、ちょっと早く起きて出発し た方がいいでしょう？ 太郎 ：はい、お母さん、じゃ、明日お願い するよ。 This is a dialog that I read that uses the colloquial form of ~nakucha/~nakya. okinakereba narimasen okinakute ha ikemasen both mean "have to get up" and "okinakya" is the colloquial form. Somebody told me that ~nakucha/~nakya can also be "~nai to ikemasen". Is there a difference between that and the other or they just is just variations on "must"? "nakute" is the negation in the te form. Is "~nai to" the plain negative verb plus particle "to" meaning "that"? Also, what's the te-form of okosu (here: to wake someone up)? Is it okote? If I wanted to say "the mother has to wake Taro up at 7 tomorrow" it would be okaasan ha ashita 7jini tarokun o okonakya??? お母さんは明日７時に太郎君を起こなきゃ。 Edited by Sunja on 26 June 2009 at 10:05am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Alkeides Senior Member Bhutan Joined 6156 days ago 636 posts - 644 votes | Message 2 of 9 26 June 2009 at 10:17am | IP Logged | |||||
te form of 起こす＝起こして The ーなくちゃ form is a contraction ofなくては while なきゃ is contracted from 無ければならない・なければいけない. (It actually is just contracted from なければ but most people just omit the succeeding ならない) There is a slight difference depending on whether you use いけない or ならない ならない is more like English "must" while いけない is more like "have to", i.e. with a sense of obligation and possible unwillingness. Later on you might come across -ざるを得ない which is literary and has a stronger sense of obligation. The "to" is simply the conditional と. Writing なきゃ forms in prose is a bit unusual, but if you want to, that last part should be 起こさなきゃ Edited by Alkeides on 26 June 2009 at 10:35am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sunja Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6093 days ago 2020 posts - 2295 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Mandarin | Message 3 of 9 26 June 2009 at 10:53am | IP Logged | |||||
aah, thank you for showing me how they're contracted. ( ーなくちゃ and なきゃ) That is a bit of a difference.
so it's fullest form is 起こさなければならない。..? You're comment about it being unusual to see なきゃ written: Would the full uncontracted form be better? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Alkeides Senior Member Bhutan Joined 6156 days ago 636 posts - 644 votes | Message 4 of 9 26 June 2009 at 11:09am | IP Logged | |||||
Well it depends on the context. If it's a blog or something informal it doesn't really matter but in books (besides some of those horrendous "keitai novels"), it is unusual save in dialogue. Edited by Alkeides on 26 June 2009 at 12:03pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| todd godwin Tetraglot Newbie Bahrain Joined 5740 days ago 8 posts - 8 votes Speaks: Japanese, French, Arabic (Written), Mandarin Studies: German, Greek, Latin, Modern Hebrew, Aramaic, Persian | Message 5 of 9 11 July 2009 at 12:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Sanja,
simplly said: shinakucha= shinakereba naranai and shinkute ikenai same thing with minakucha, tabenakucha etc. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| ericspinelli Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5791 days ago 249 posts - 493 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Korean, Italian | Message 6 of 9 11 July 2009 at 8:55pm | IP Logged | |||||
This is over an simplification. As has already been stated ては→ちゃ and ければ→きゃ and, while the usage is similar and sometimes overlaps, they are different constructions. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| todd godwin Tetraglot Newbie Bahrain Joined 5740 days ago 8 posts - 8 votes Speaks: Japanese, French, Arabic (Written), Mandarin Studies: German, Greek, Latin, Modern Hebrew, Aramaic, Persian | Message 7 of 9 13 July 2009 at 9:10am | IP Logged | |||||
no it's not not. shinakucha means i've got to do it. shinkute wa ikenai means i've got to do it. shinakeraba naranai means i've got to do it. don't make simple things more complicated than they are. Edited by todd godwin on 13 July 2009 at 10:01am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| todd godwin Tetraglot Newbie Bahrain Joined 5740 days ago 8 posts - 8 votes Speaks: Japanese, French, Arabic (Written), Mandarin Studies: German, Greek, Latin, Modern Hebrew, Aramaic, Persian | Message 8 of 9 13 July 2009 at 9:22am | IP Logged | |||||
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<<This is over an simplification. As has already been stated ては→ちゃ and ければ→きゃ>>
and of course they are different constructions. what makes you think i said they were the same construction? i am saying the meaning is the same. If you've got real examples showing how these have different meanings (excluding the issue of register, which is obviously different), show them. Edited by todd godwin on 13 July 2009 at 10:02am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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