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G/ch/r in Dutch | ||
Tags: Dutch | Pronunciation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| sprachefin Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5754 days ago 300 posts - 317 votes  Speaks: German*, English, Spanish Studies: French, Turkish, Mandarin, Bulgarian, Persian, Dutch | Message 1 of 9 10 July 2009 at 1:02am | IP Logged | |||||
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Are the g and the ch pronounced the same? Are they as guttural as the Farsi kh or are they soft like the German ch? Is the r in between the French and the German or hsould it be pronounced like the German r.
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 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5855 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 2 of 9 10 July 2009 at 10:52am | IP Logged | |||||
First question: The Dutch letter "g" is exactly pronounced as the "ch" in the German words "Bach", "Buch" usw. Second question: The Dutch "r" is totally different from the German and French "r", because it has to be rolled like the Italian, Spanish, Esperanto and Turkish "r". Fasulye 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sprachbund Octoglot Newbie Denmark Joined 5640 days ago 15 posts - 15 votes Speaks: English*, Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, German, Spanish, French, Dutch Studies: Italian, Latin, Arabic (classical), Russian | Message 3 of 9 10 July 2009 at 2:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Dutch is a dialect continuum with several "officially accepted" pronunciations. northern varieties (Netherlands) tend to sound more guttural/harsher than southern varieties (Belgium), and that includes the pronunciation of g/ch and of r. You will probably need access to native speakers or to radio/TV programs to hear the different possible pronunciations.
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| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 6130 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes 22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 4 of 9 10 July 2009 at 4:34pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Actually, the 'r' in Dutch is a shibboleth. Quite a fascinating subject. Here’s an interesting discussion on it. Some of the posts and links are in Dutch, so maybe not that useful to you, but just to give you an idea:
http://www.dutchgrammar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1503 The gist is that there are three main ‘r’ pronunciations in Dutch: 1. rollende 'r' 2. 'brouwende' (Franse) 'r' 3. Engelse 'r' I use the first one, which is the one Fasulye describes above, because I like the sound of it. Edited by JW on 10 July 2009 at 4:35pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| sprachefin Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5754 days ago 300 posts - 317 votes Speaks: German*, English, Spanish Studies: French, Turkish, Mandarin, Bulgarian, Persian, Dutch | Message 5 of 9 10 July 2009 at 5:38pm | IP Logged | |||||
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The book Colloquial Dutch says that the rolled are may be the easiest, but it says that not a lot of people use it and when one does use it, they get weird looks. The rolled r is very easy for me and that is how I assumed it was pronounced originally until I started looking at the pronunciation section of Colloquial Dutch. Maybe this is wrong?
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| Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5855 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 9 10 July 2009 at 5:45pm | IP Logged | |||||
I roll the same "r" in those languages: Dutch, Spanish, Italian, Esperanto, Turkish and I would also roll it in Russian and Portugese. That's very practical: One size fits all!!! But many Germans who speak foreign languages are not capable of rolling an "r". Fortunately you don't have this problem, Sprachefin. So just roll it and Dutch people will appreciate it. Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 10 July 2009 at 5:48pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 6130 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes 22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 7 of 9 10 July 2009 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
I think the statement from the link I provided above that sums it up best is: "In the Dutch speaking regions, you can hear several variants of the letter 'r'. There is no such thing as 'the best' pronunciation but people often have a preference for (and aversion against) one particular variant." This to me means that you should use the variant you are most comfortable with. EDIT: By the way, listen to the lady's intro here. This is a very beautiful rollende 'r' (click "Beluister dit boek"): http://www.radioboeken.eu/radioboek.php?id=177&lang=NL Edited by JW on 10 July 2009 at 6:19pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| sprachefin Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5754 days ago 300 posts - 317 votes Speaks: German*, English, Spanish Studies: French, Turkish, Mandarin, Bulgarian, Persian, Dutch | Message 8 of 9 10 July 2009 at 6:13pm | IP Logged | |||||
Well that's a relief. Colloquial Dutch is written by an American (I think), so all the elements of a native speaker's point of view is really gone. Fasulye, when I watch NOS Journaal, It seems that many of the reporters are pronouncing their g's and ch's much harder than the German ch. It doesn't seem as soft. I'm sorry I am obsessing over this but I am really concerned for my pronunciation. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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