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Reasonable expectations in Mandarin? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| w.shipley Groupie United States Joined 5684 days ago 42 posts - 43 votes Speaks: English* | Message 1 of 12 04 August 2009 at 6:37am | IP Logged | ||
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My school has a certain level of foreign language classes undergraduate students are expected to pass. I figured instead of taking a class for something else I'm studying (German) I would take a language with a reputation for being more difficult. So I've decided to take Mandarin Chinese at my school, but only for the class credits. I want to learn it, though, and I really want to know the language by the end of my requirements. (Does that make sense?) I want to supplement the class with actual work I attribute to my other languages and wanted to know how many characters one can reasonably expect to learn a day. Five? Six? I've searched, but found no answer to my question. Should I learn X amount of words a day with the character of each, or the words at a regular speed and slowly learn the characters (ten vocabulary a day, three characters)? I'm new to characters and have no idea how to go about it. Should I learn traditional and simplified or start with one and then learn the other, or what? I'm not trying to sound like I'm complaining, I'm merely looking for advice. Thanks so much!
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| Z.J.J Senior Member China Joined 5616 days ago 243 posts - 305 votes  Speaks: Mandarin* | Message 2 of 12 04 August 2009 at 7:09am | IP Logged | ||
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w.shipley：Should I learn traditional and simplified or start with one and then learn the other, or what?
I'm proficient in both traditional and simplified characters, frankly, personally I prefer reasonable traditional style, actually a great deal of Characters are still traditional. (everyday useful characters: "Tra + Sim" around 4,800), only around 2,200 characters are simplified part, simplification project seems like a building that shut down in half way. But I'd like to suggest that you should start Chinese with simplified characters, if you don't really plan to be an expert of Chinese language. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Z.J.J Senior Member China Joined 5616 days ago 243 posts - 305 votes Speaks: Mandarin* | Message 3 of 12 04 August 2009 at 7:26am | IP Logged | ||
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Traditional characters:
媽(mā) 麻(má) 馬(mǎ) 罵(mà) 嗎(ma) Simplified characters: 妈(mā) 麻(má) 马(mǎ) 骂(mà) 吗(ma) "Hanyu Pinyin" is only helpful for Chinese pupils to learn characters, also useful for foreign learners to master pronunciation, but not a written form of Chinese languages, becuase Pinyin is absolutely not a fairly perfect system for expressing the meaning exactly. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Pyx Diglot Senior Member China Joined 5743 days ago 670 posts - 892 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: Mandarin | Message 4 of 12 04 August 2009 at 8:37am | IP Logged | ||
Depends on a lot of things, of course. Most importantly naturally on the time you're willing to spend on it, but also on more; If you're 'just' interested in characters (= meaning, no pronounciation, no words), and you're using a method like Heisig's (google: "heisig hanzi"), you can expect to learn a good 30-50 per day (maybe more, if you're really commited?). If you, however, want to learn actual words that use the characters, it'll be less (5-30?). Another factor is how far you're into your studies. In the beginning you learn the characters fast, because you've only seen a few. Then, for a long time, they all look the same and you'll have a hard time remembering the little differences, which will slow you down. Then, you get to the point that you're used to learning characters, and you pick up speed again. To give you something more personal to work with: I'm currently learning 20-25 sentences per day, with at least one new character, and about two new words each. I have nothing else to do at the moment, and both the learning and the finding of sentences use a lot of time. When I was still in college full time I was learning between 5 sentences (when I had much to do) to 15 sentences (when I was pretty free) daily. So go figure :) ps: I'm only learning for comprehension, not for production, so if you need to be able to produce the characters from memory, you may want to cut these estimates in half. At least. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Pyx Diglot Senior Member China Joined 5743 days ago 670 posts - 892 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: Mandarin | Message 5 of 12 04 August 2009 at 8:44am | IP Logged | ||
I really need to add this: Mandarin is an incredible shitload of work, and I don't think anybody has ever gotten even close to fluent (or literate) if he hasn't made it the center of his life. There is no learning Mandarin 'casually'. This *might* work for 'easy' languages like Spanish or Italian, or whatever (and even there I'm sceptical. Never worked for me with Spanish and French). You will seriously have to bust your ass to get good in Mandarin, and that requires motivation. Good motivation. (If you wonder, my gf is Chinese ;) ). So in summary, to spare you much frustration, I will have to advise you to either really commit to your choice of Mandarin, and be prepared and willing to pour your lifeblood into it, or go with German. It's a nice language too! Check out my thread of 'reasons to learn a language' to read some examples of why you should learn it :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Z.J.J Senior Member China Joined 5616 days ago 243 posts - 305 votes Speaks: Mandarin* | Message 6 of 12 04 August 2009 at 9:16am | IP Logged | ||
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English proverb:
There is no royal road to learning. Chinese proverb: 「書山有路勤為徑、學海無涯苦作舟」（tradit ional） 「书山有路勤为径、学海无涯苦作舟」（simpli fied） Free translation (not precise): Great diligence is the best route to the mountain peak of knowledge. Great efforts and sufferings may lead you to the deep ocean of learning. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| dbh2ppa Diglot Groupie Costa Rica Joined 5696 days ago 44 posts - 74 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Italian, Japanese, Sign Language | Message 7 of 12 04 August 2009 at 8:41pm | IP Logged | ||
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chinese kids learn to speak the language in two years or so. yes, your brain is less "elastic" than a baby's, but you have the advantage the you have already a language you can relate the concepts to, so i'd say, for speaking, two years is a realistic timeframe (with considerable exposure, that is)
traditional vs simplified. i think learning simplified after traditional is easier (a lot of simplifications are regular transformations of traditional characters, plus, some traditional characters are merged when simplified, so they would be harder to learn after simplified). heisig's method is a very good idea, but not the book itself. i suggest you understand the method, and then get a hanzi dictionary and go at it yourself, using an SRS (Spaced repetition system, like Anki) is a great idea. With this method, learning to write the 2024 kanji used in japanese in three months is actually reasonable. some people like the concept of learning through sentences, some don't. it's explained in detail in AJATT (alljapaneseallthetime.com), just switch every instance of "japanese" for "mandarin" and you're set. if you decide to go with this method, http://zhongwenred.com/ is a great source of beginner sentences. good luck 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Z.J.J Senior Member China Joined 5616 days ago 243 posts - 305 votes Speaks: Mandarin* | Message 8 of 12 05 August 2009 at 4:18am | IP Logged | ||
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Some simplified cannot be accurately deduced by analogy based on traditional.
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