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Mandarin 3rd tone question | ||
Tags: Pronunciation | Mandarin | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| pfwillard Pro Member United States Joined 5707 days ago 169 posts - 205 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: French Personal Language Map | Message 17 of 22 19 August 2009 at 10:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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Z. J. J. --
Are there any relics of the U. S. presence in Tianjin still visible? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6902 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 18 of 22 20 August 2009 at 12:23am | IP Logged | ||
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On the original question, the way this is taught in language courses is that in the case of a number of consecutive third tones, the last one is pronounced as a third tone and one, two, three or more of the preceding third tones change to the second tone.
So, a sequence like 33333 could end up as 22223. However, in practice they tend to end up grouped in chunks one way or another, with the result that some of the preceding ones are pronounced 3 as well, eg. 333333 might become 223223. No precise rules can be given for exactly how they are chunked, even the same phrase can be divided up in different ways for different emphasis. For instance, a couple of early posts in this thread mentioned the 323 pattern for the phrase "wo3 hen2 hao3", but a 223 pattern is also possible: I have heard it pronunced as "wo2 hen2 hao3". 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Z.J.J Senior Member China Joined 5616 days ago 243 posts - 305 votes Speaks: Mandarin* | Message 19 of 22 20 August 2009 at 5:27am | IP Logged | ||
Please refer to: 「天津意大利风情区」= Italian style zone of Tianjin city 
Edited by Z.J.J on 20 August 2009 at 5:29am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| bouda Senior Member United States Joined 5605 days ago 194 posts - 197 votes Speaks: English* | Message 20 of 22 20 August 2009 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | ||
something pronounced as 22223; I definitely agree with you that the way you divide it can depend on emphasis. I even follow you to the point that "wo hen hao" may have been pronounced as 223 by a native speaker. However, although obviously I'm not trying to say that you did not have the experience you did, I want to add that I personally have NEVER heard anyone who is a native speaker pronounce "wo hen hao" as 223 except once, and she was completely drunk and all her tones were nonstandard (by which I just mean "didn't match up with my textbooks/teachers/what I usually heard"). I may have heard it a second time from a 90- year-old man whose tones, again, were all nonstandard. I have also asked teachers many times through the years how to pronounce this and other phrases, because it remains a topic of fascination to me, and no one has EVER told me anything other than 323 for this particular phrase. I believe that this exact phrase is also written as 323 at least one of my textbooks. Because of the way that in all my years of studying Chinese I have NEVER heard this phrase as 223 spoken consciously by someone whose other tones were all standard, I do want to add my own experience with "wo2 hen2 hao3" to this thread to let people know that, as right as you may be, it is equally possible that such a combination is rare, as at least one person has never encountered it in multiple years of consistent contact with Chinese. This could very likely be because I rarely speak to people who are not from Taiwan or major cities (ex Beijing) of the Mainland - that is, I generally have contact with people who often speak closer to the Chinese in my textbooks as I understand it, at least in terms of tones. Any native speakers or other long-time studiers on Mandarin want to weigh in on how common/standard wo2 hen2 hao3 is, especially as spoken by speakers who adhere more closely to the Chinese taught in textbook in terms of tones? I'm curious to learn more about this. ETA: And as far as I know, I've been quite good at distinguishing tones thus far (but again, I do not speak with a wide range of accented speakers). Edited by bouda on 20 August 2009 at 3:04pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Z.J.J Senior Member China Joined 5616 days ago 243 posts - 305 votes Speaks: Mandarin* | Message 21 of 22 20 August 2009 at 2:57pm | IP Logged | ||
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Usually, it depends on how accurately you can distinguish from different tones, it's not very easy to master natural and precise tones, even for those foreigners who can write Chinese correctly and pronounce Chinese quite well. Actually I think wo3 (我) can never be pronounced as wo2, unless when he's deadly drunk or he speaks in broken Mandarin by design just for fun.
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| Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6902 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 22 of 22 21 August 2009 at 12:53pm | IP Logged | ||
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OK, thanks for the feedback. I was pretty sure I had heard it that way but after both of your comments I am doubting whether I heard it correctly, or whether I remember it correctly.
That phrase was apparently not the best example to use, especially as the feedback comments above deflected the attention from the point I was making, which is still valid, whether my choice of example is on shaky ground or not. Edited by Hencke on 21 August 2009 at 12:55pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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