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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| Sunja Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6093 days ago 2020 posts - 2295 votes  1 sounds Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Mandarin | Message 9 of 19 12 August 2009 at 5:33pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I've seen it mispelled twice here in this thread: the romaji is spelled jyouyou 常用. "Joyo" 藷蕷 is a yam. Would be a bummer if someone were to try to google "joyo" and got some Chinese grocer's list instead of a kanji list (^_^) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| hombre gordo Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5591 days ago 184 posts - 247 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Japanese Studies: Portuguese, Korean | Message 10 of 19 12 August 2009 at 8:38pm | IP Logged | |||||
It is not a mispelling. Although jouyou is more accurate at representing the sound, it is most commonly written in English as "Joyo" just like 柔道 is written as Judo as opposed to Juudou. I take your point on romanizations though. English often cannot represent Japanese words wery well. However, Japanese is horrendous at representing English words! Edited by hombre gordo on 12 August 2009 at 8:43pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sunja Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6093 days ago 2020 posts - 2295 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Mandarin | Message 11 of 19 13 August 2009 at 9:29am | IP Logged | |||||
Ah-. I write a lot^^ I had no idea that "joyo" had become almost a household word! Here's a quesion. To break Japanese words down to something (even) closer to our language interferes with speaking doesn't it? Just a thought. If I write "joyo" then I'm thinking in my head "yo-yo" and then maybe I'll forget to extend the vowel sound when I'm actually speaking and the Japanese go "EH?" Not that I have experience speaking, but mispronunciation is an anticipated fear of mine. When I write to Japanese they prefer the phonetic version. (with Skype I haven't figured out how to get the characters to show up, so I use romaji.) Although, I think they have their own phonetics sometimes. My Japanese partner wrote "kasyu" for "kaisha" ｢会社」. First I thought it was a typo, but then I saw how she used this "-syu" ending on another "-sha"-word. I know Japanese only write with the alphabet for our benefit, but it made me wonder if there was some dialect at work there, or maybe she doesn't have a handle on how romaji works yet.. So many words, so many ways! Edited by Sunja on 13 August 2009 at 9:33am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| hombre gordo Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5591 days ago 184 posts - 247 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Japanese Studies: Portuguese, Korean | Message 12 of 19 13 August 2009 at 9:09pm | IP Logged | |||||
I agree that it would be better to romanize 常用 as "jouyou" rather than "Joyo" but the reality is that the accepted English romanization is "joyo". Actually I believe that the best romanization for the layman English native would be "jōyō" with the above lines to demonstrate that it must be pronounced with two long vowels. This is how it appears in Wikipedia. An English speaker with no grasp of Japanese may end up pronouncing "jouyou" like "juuyuu" or something because the "you" in "jouyou" looks like the second person pronoun "you". Just my personal opinion on romanization. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| OneEye Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6858 days ago 518 posts - 784 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, Taiwanese, German, French | Message 13 of 19 13 August 2009 at 9:56pm | IP Logged | |||||
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And while we're being overly pedantic, it's rōmaji or roumaji.
However, let's not forget that romaji is NOT Japanese. So this discussion is pointless. Joyo, jōyō, jouyou, and jyouyou are all wrong. It's 常用, or at least じょうよう. I should say though, all are acceptable in an English discussion, although "jyouyou" is one I don't think I've ever seen. I almost always see joyo and jōyō. Sunja, if I were in your position, talking to Japanese people via Skype, I'd get the IME problem sorted out ASAP. I wouldn't put up with someone trying to type English to me in hiragana, and I'm honestly surprised they are willing to put up with romaji. I have a feeling they're just being polite. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| ellasevia Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2011 Senior Member Germany Joined 6150 days ago 2150 posts - 3229 votes Speaks: English*, German, Croatian, Greek, French, Spanish, Russian, Swedish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Catalan, Persian, Mandarin, Japanese, Romanian, Ukrainian | Message 14 of 19 13 August 2009 at 11:54pm | IP Logged | |||||
All very good points. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| hombre gordo Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5591 days ago 184 posts - 247 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Japanese Studies: Portuguese, Korean | Message 15 of 19 14 August 2009 at 1:04am | IP Logged | |||||
I agree. Japanese should just be written in Japanese. Romanized Japanese is actually quite difficult to read, at least I find this to be the case. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sunja Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6093 days ago 2020 posts - 2295 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Mandarin | Message 16 of 19 14 August 2009 at 12:44pm | IP Logged | |||||
--for discussion in English, I guess, sure. The reason why I brought it up is I was thinking about someone trying to google 常用 They would need to type j-y-o-u-y-o-u. you're right about roumaji. Thanks.
If we're all learning then what's the harm. It was their suggestion to use Skype. (I met all of my partners through either mylanguageexchange.com or SharedTalk.com.) The MS IME function doesn't work sending messages within Skype, so I asked them about the roumaji and they agreed. If I type "toi" for 遠い they write "arimasen. tooi desu." That's how to type it to get the kanji -- that's how they've learned it in school, so that's how I use it. I think Japanese use roumaji in their own culture and not just to help me out ^^ They have to type Latin letters into computers and electronic devices all the time so I think most of them know how to use it. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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