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Toki Pona? | ||
Tags: Toki Pona | Difficulty | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| matthewmartin Triglot Newbie United States suburbandestiny.com Joined 6203 days ago 22 posts - 36 votes Speaks: English*, Russian, Toki Pona | Message 9 of 15 24 May 2011 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
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@paranaday This is a common claim about toki pona. I'm skeptical about the official
examples (Could one translate friendly fire or collateral damage without spinning shooting our own soldiers and killing civilians? Actually I think I could write toki pona that dances around the issues, too.) While reading jan Wiko's post, I got the idea that it might prove to be useful for those phrase we use without really operationalizing, i.e. knowing what it might mean. "He's stuck up" "My teacher is full of it" "Don't be smart with me mister" "He's putting me on" etc. Word for word translations into toki pona would be non-sense and for a lack of words, you're forced to pick some more concrete representations for, "I think he thinks he's better than me. "My teacher said something that I disagree with" "I think you are stupid and insolent" "He's saying words that he thinks I will believe, but I don't believe him." I think the wold world of pychobabble falls into this category because when talking about relationships and emotions it's easy to discuss the abstract without realizing that we don't understand what it concretely implies. I would also add that a beginner would probably get the same effect from translating into Spanish, but an advanced Spanish speaker would be able to resort to the same psychobabble and BS that a native speaker could. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| rdmiller3 Diglot Newbie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5120 days ago 4 posts - 8 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto Studies: Toki Pona | Message 10 of 15 24 May 2011 at 8:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
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matthewmartin is right. It's possible to be self-deceptive even in Toki Pona
but it's a lot more difficult. Some people have come up with huge lists of pre-defined idiomatic expressions in Toki Pona which they wanted everyone to agree would correspond specifically to natural- language vocabulary words. Others came up with schemes for representing numbers. Some try to explain complex things using long, long texts in Toki Pona. All of these are difficult and they miss the whole point of the language. Toki Pona is a deliberately blurred language. For me, it helped in recognizing my ex-wife's veiled verbal abuse. Instead of being fooled by gentle voice and polite words I was forced to admit that the things she was saying were extremely hurtful. I was also able to more clearly understand my own feelings towards her. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| a3 Triglot Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 5260 days ago 273 posts - 370 votes  Speaks: Bulgarian*, English, Russian Studies: Portuguese, German, Italian, Spanish, Norwegian, Finnish | Message 11 of 15 21 January 2012 at 8:36pm | IP Logged | |||||
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How long did it take you to learn Toki Pona? For me, using memrise for vocabulary and jan Pije's website, I learned everything from those in matter of hours.
mi pilin e ni: sina mute lili pilin* ala e ni: tenpo lili la mi kama sona e toki pona. mi toki e sitelen lili. *i find it very odd toki pona doesnt have words for such basic concepts as think or believe, read, etc. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| rdmiller3 Diglot Newbie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5120 days ago 4 posts - 8 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto Studies: Toki Pona | Message 12 of 15 21 January 2012 at 10:12pm | IP Logged | |||||
It took me a week to memorize the vocabulary. Then it took about another two or three weeks before I felt I had mastered reading and writing it. I never did get much speaking practice.
You forgot "sina mute LI". You can't omit "li" unless the subject is only one word, "mi" or "sina". Also the verb "lili pilin" should have been "pilin lili" or better yet just "pilin". But the sentence "mi toki e sitelen lili" really puzzles me. "I say little picture"??? No idea what that was supposed to mean. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| matthewmartin Triglot Newbie United States suburbandestiny.com Joined 6203 days ago 22 posts - 36 votes Speaks: English*, Russian, Toki Pona | Message 13 of 15 21 January 2012 at 10:29pm | IP Logged | |||||
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In the last forum survey & the small number of people who kept track, it seems to be
about 30 hours before you feel like you've learned most of what there is and can read a little and write a little. Just like a real language, months later I still feel like I'm getting slowly (real slowly!) better. Using my ESP, I suspect "mi toki e sitelen lili" means I'm writing small texts. If so, then it would be "mi sitelen e toki lili" (which sounds like someone using the toki lili website) or "mi sitelen e sitelen lili" or "mi sitelen e sitelen pi nimi pi nanpa lili" I'm writing texts with few words. Ironically because 4/125 of the vocab is number related (wan, tu, ala, nanpa) a construction that uses numbers is clearer than just saying "lili", which in the case of sitelen lili conjures thoughts of stamps, chinese pictographs, tiny books, and the like. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| a3 Triglot Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 5260 days ago 273 posts - 370 votes Speaks: Bulgarian*, English, Russian Studies: Portuguese, German, Italian, Spanish, Norwegian, Finnish | Message 14 of 15 22 January 2012 at 8:51am | IP Logged | |||||
sina mute lili LI pilin and with "mi toki e sitelen lili" i meant "i still havent read many texts" again, why does toki pona have only one word for such different concepts as speak, talk, say, write, read *pilin ike* D:< also there's another big flaw - lili can mean both small in size and in number.why arent there two words as is the case with mute/suli? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| rdmiller3 Diglot Newbie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5120 days ago 4 posts - 8 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto Studies: Toki Pona | Message 15 of 15 22 January 2012 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | |||||
Then perhaps what you meant to say was:
Edited by rdmiller3 on 22 January 2012 at 2:11pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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