Starting French, looking for good grammar (Language Programs, Books & Tapes) Language Learning Forum

Starting French, looking for good grammar
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Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes

10 messages over 2 pages: 1 2 Next >>

solongsekhu
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United States
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Studies: Japanese

Message 1 of 10

25 October 2011 at 8:54am | IP Logged

Hi everyone,

I'm thinking about starting French soon, pretty much from zero knowledge of the language, and I'm looking for a good grammar resource.

I'm studying Japanese now, and by far my favorite resource has been a three-book set of dictionaries of Japanese grammar. I like them because they're extermeley detailed and thorough, they have good example sentences, and they compare and contrast similar grammatical structuers. They're also broken into three volumes by difficulty and have plenty of English explanations, which is nice for beginners.

Do you know any grammar resources like this for Frnech? A lot of websites and textbooks seem to try to not scare you with detailed grammar. Other methods don't focus on grammatical rules, letting you just pick it up as you go. That's fine for some people, but I really like learning grammar through rules, examples, and comparisons, in a really detailed way (even pretty early on in my study of a new language). Of course this is not the only stuff I study; I do lots of conversation, listening, and vocabulary too. But for grammar, this is what I need. Any ideas?

Thanks for reading!
1 person has voted this message useful

Splog
Diglot
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Czech Republic
anthonylauder.c
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Message 2 of 10

25 October 2011 at 9:22am | IP Logged

I have a few French grammar books. The one that sounds most like what you are looking for
is Advanced French Grammar. It is very comprehensive, with
plenty of rules and examples. It is also about 700 pages long.
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solongsekhu
Newbie
United States
Joined 4851 days ago
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Speaks: English*
Studies: Japanese

Message 3 of 10

25 October 2011 at 3:30pm | IP Logged

Thanks for the recommendation! That seems like the kind of book I'm looking for. I think I might get it.

I know it's called 'Advanced French Grammar,' but do you think I could use it as a beginner? I imagine it's called that because it's so comprehensive.

Thanks again!
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Chris
Heptaglot
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Japan
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Message 4 of 10

25 October 2011 at 4:34pm | IP Logged

For a beginner, who likes learning through grammar, how about starting with the newly updated 'living French' course? URL=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Living-French-Grammar-based-Cour se-Language/dp/0340990740/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=131 9552744&sr=1-1#_]Living French[/URL] It seems people are returning to the right way to learn a language instead of all the gimmicks, i.e. through grammar. Watch the fur start to fly now. LOL
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Splog
Diglot
Senior Member
Czech Republic
anthonylauder.c
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Message 5 of 10

25 October 2011 at 4:57pm | IP Logged

solongsekhu wrote:

Thanks for the recommendation! That seems like the kind of book
I'm looking for. I think I might get it.

I know it's called 'Advanced French Grammar,' but do you think I could use it as a
beginner? I imagine it's called that because it's so comprehensive.

Thanks again!

Well, it is not a textbook. It is more a reference grammar, for looking things up in.
So, it would be fine for a beginner to use it for that, but not as a textbook to read
from front to back (unless you are very determined). I would recommend a slim textbook
(e.g. teach yourself, or something similar) to start out with, but even at that stage
this grammar book is good reference material.
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Chung
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Message 6 of 10

25 October 2011 at 5:41pm | IP Logged

solongsekhu wrote:

I recommend Schaum's Outline of French Grammar. The explanations are concise but there are examples for most concepts and there is a set or two of exercises devoted to most grammatical topics. Answer keys in the back of the book. I used the one for German grammar some time ago and got a good bit out of it for review for one of my exams.

If you would want something that seems to replicate a three-step progression, here's how Schaum's may fit in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schaum%27s_Outlines#Differential_with_other_supplements wrote:

Schaum's Outlines are part of the educational supplements niche. They are frequently seen alongside the Barron's "Easy Way" series and McGraw-Hil's own "Demystified" series. The "Demystified" series is introductory in nature, for middle and high school students, favoring more in-depth coverage of introductory material at the expense of fewer topics. The "Easy Way" series is a middle ground: more rigorous and detailed than the "Demystified" books, but not as rigorous and terse as the Schaum's series. Schaum's originally occupied the niche of college supplements, and the titles tend to be more advanced and rigorous. With the expansion of AP classes in high schools, Schaum's Outlines are positioned as AP supplements. The outline format makes explanations more terse than any other supplement. Schaum's has a much wider range of titles than any other series, even for some graduate level courses, but these are typically not found at retail outlets.

So, get French Grammar: The Easy Way (Barron's E-Z), French Demystified: A Self-Teaching Guide and Schaum's Outline of French Grammar

Each of these books costs peanuts second-hand on Amazon Marketplace, so...

For a reference manual, I recommend French Grammar and Usage. A very good work with lots of examples and decent coverage on most topics in French grammar.
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palfrey
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Canada
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Studies: German, French

Message 7 of 10

25 October 2011 at 9:03pm | IP Logged

solongsekhu wrote:

I'm studying Japanese now, and by far my favorite resource has been a three-book set of dictionaries of Japanese grammar.

Sorry to be off-topic, but you've got me curious about these Japanese books. Could you give the title, author, and any other information needed to identify them? Thanks very much.
1 person has voted this message useful

solongsekhu
Newbie
United States
Joined 4851 days ago
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Speaks: English*
Studies: Japanese

Message 8 of 10

26 October 2011 at 4:05am | IP Logged

Thanks for the ideas everyone! That's all very helpful. I know some of those books are made as references, but I actually like reading that kind of grammar resource from cover to cover and trying to absorb it like that. It just works for me. That's what I've been doing with Japanese anyway.

- - - -

Sorry to get side-tracked, but for palfrey and anyone else interested in the Japanese grammar dictionaries...

Here's a link to the first volume, 'A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar.' It has really basic stuff plus a lot of points that other textbooks and websites probably call intermediate. This volume alone can get you by in a lot of situations, as far as grammar. Like the above-mentioned French resources it's made as a reference book, but after I had a bit of a grammar base (from Tae Kim's online grammar guide), I had no problem just going through the whole thing.

http://www.amazon.com/Dictionary-Basic-Japanese-Grammar/dp/4 789004546/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319594097&sr=8-1

For the next two volumes, just search Amazon for the same title, replacing 'basic' with 'intermediate' (blue cover) and 'advanced' (red cover). I'm just starting the intermediate volume and it has some great stuff too. I imagine the advanced book is quite advanced, with a lot of rarer structures and stuff used mostly in writing. Haven't bought that one yet.

These are by far my favorite Japanese resource of any kind. If you like detailed grammar explanations and comparisons, and that stuff doesn't drive you crazy, it's definitely the way to go. The only other book I've come across in terms of thoroughness is 'All About Particles,' which covers all the main particles/post-positions in detail through example sentences.

Let me know if you have any questions!

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