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Argentine Spanish & Italian | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| KimG Diglot Groupie Norway Joined 4802 days ago 88 posts - 104 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, English Studies: Portuguese, Swahili | Message 9 of 18 10 January 2012 at 10:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
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There is some cities in Brazil who got a lot of Italian immigrants as well, and have had Italian speaking communities. Some Brazilians from there *might* pick up Italian more or less by comparing it to their local accent of Portuguese, but. Most of those actually either speak a little of it, either actively or passively by associating with some sort of Italian speaking community.
I've practiced listening to Brazilian Portuguese listening to netradio's from some of Brazil's Italian accented cities, who perhaps too include São Paulo, who is the accent I've studied, and seem to understand the accents closes to "Italian" best. Do I suddenly understand Italian? Nope! But, I think it might be simpler to learn to pronounce the language, if I were to study it in the future. What speaking with an "Italian" accent mean in Brazil, seems to be using 5-7 Italian like words, pronouncing "nh" as Italian/french "gn", and in the state of Sao Paulo some say stuff as "um Gato, dois Gato, treis Gato, Muitos Gato". 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6422 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 10 of 18 11 January 2012 at 6:38am | IP Logged | |||||
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| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5051 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 11 of 18 11 January 2012 at 9:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I don't know if they are the same thing or a bunch of very close sounds. Is Russian soft n ('нь') the same thing or a different but close one?
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| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6422 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 12 of 18 11 January 2012 at 9:47pm | IP Logged | |||||
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That's how the Portuguese nh was taught to me, at least.
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| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5051 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 13 of 18 12 January 2012 at 12:23am | IP Logged | |||||
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I think we can safely assume they're the same thing then.
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| Flarioca Heptaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5707 days ago 635 posts - 816 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Esperanto, French, EnglishC2, Spanish, German, Italian Studies: Catalan, Mandarin | Message 14 of 18 12 January 2012 at 12:26am | IP Logged | |||||
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The Portuguese "nh" and the Spanish "ñ" are essentially the same sound.
The Italian immigration to Argentina was huge, almost as big as the Spanish during the XX century. I know lots of argentinians and almost all of them have at least one Italian ancestor line. It brought a huge influence in the accent, among other things, as well. Edit:
Sorry. About the original question, my answer would be: No ... but, of course, some sound similarities might help a very tiny little bit. The point is, I don't know any research proving that argentinians learn Italian easier than other Spanish speakers. I might add that this is not one of the things argentinians like to boast and they like to boast a lot ;-)) Edited by Flarioca on 12 January 2012 at 12:41am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5836 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 15 of 18 12 January 2012 at 1:45am | IP Logged | |||||
I don't know about NH, but the GN and Ñ always seemed slightly different to me. All three are represented by the same symbol in the IPA (as is Catalan NY), but then Italian GL, Catalan LL and Spanish LL are also all represented with one symbol, but the Italian and Catalan palatal Ls are definitely different from the Spanish one... 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5051 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 16 of 18 12 January 2012 at 11:16am | IP Logged | |||||
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Yes. I think the problem with the IPA is it was first designed to address English, and everything else came as afterthoughts and extensions but they didn't really care / agree on how to do it so we ended up with the current 'thing'.
Actually, I teach only the necessary IPA symbols to English students because the pronunciation is so wildly different from spelling that you need transcriptions. With everything else (Spanish, German, Russian), the natural alphabet and good descriptions of some phonemes and allophones are usually enough. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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