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Questions Regarding Arabic | ||
Tags: Choosing a Language | Arabic | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Humdereel Octoglot Groupie United States Joined 4979 days ago 90 posts - 349 votes  Speaks: English, Spanish*, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written), Turkish, Persian, Urdu Studies: Russian | Message 33 of 93 11 December 2011 at 1:09am | IP Logged | |||||
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After I had gotten a foundation in basic MSA grammar, I decided that I might as well move into intermediate and advanced grammar. I was fully aware that there was MSA and then the dialects, but I thought I'd continue with MSA anyways. From there, I ordered "Modern Written Arabic: A Comprehensive Grammar". I found that I was familiar with some of the intermediate subjects, so I reviewed them and then moved onto the more "advanced" material. By then, I was able to dedicate more time for Arabic (although I was in university, I had a decent amount of time to study, usually between 6-12 hours per week). The book proved to be a valuable resource and within another year, I felt very comfortable in MSA. Although the grammar was complex at many times, I soon grew to love its mathematical structure and poetic flow, as well as appreciate its illogical logic that popped up occasionally.
I was then able to read several Arabic newspapers and understand the majority of what was being written about. I could listen to Al-Jazeera and Arabic podcasts and understand 70%-80% of what was being said the first time, more so when I listened to them several times. I then decided to tackle my goal of reading some basic Arabic literature. I started with the tales of Kalila wa Dimna, and I found that I understood much of it as well. Of course, although I understood a lot, there were always new words and expressions that I had to learn. After having this strong foundation in MSA, I thought, "Time for a dialect." I found myself drawn to both Egyptian and Levantine dialects, though I went for Egyptian first because I had more opportunites to practice it and there were more materials on it at the time. My Egyptian friend was always very helpful, and through him I learned many of the pecularities of the dialect. In my junior year, I had the opportunity to study abroad in Egypt (although not an actual language course, I took it so that I could be in an Arabic-speaking environment). On September 2004, I embarked on my trip to Cairo. I was to spend at least four months there. It was my first time being out of the U.S., so it was definitely an exhilarating but nerve-wrecking experience at first. To be continued... 9 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4890 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 34 of 93 11 December 2011 at 1:25am | IP Logged | |||||
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Please let us know how easy/hard it was to move from MSA to Egyptian!
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| KSAKSA Groupie Australia Joined 5146 days ago 65 posts - 99 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Arabic (Gulf) | Message 35 of 93 11 December 2011 at 6:53am | IP Logged | |||||
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Fabulous Humdereel, it's always interesting to hear othr's stories of what leads them to study a language. I had to laugh though at your first experience of travelling outside of the US was Egypt....what a headspin that must have been for you! :)
It's the grammer that I'm frustrated with, I need to learn to love it like you seem to have done. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Camundonguinho Triglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 4750 days ago 273 posts - 500 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English, Spanish Studies: Swedish | Message 36 of 93 11 December 2011 at 11:46am | IP Logged | |||||
Many people in Europe can read Latin because they learned it in highschool. Latin is used in set phrases, and law and medicine. There are still church ceremonials in Latin (and not only in Vatican, but in other places too). In Italy, the Latin language is considered important, a part of heritage. And if you live in Rome, you can practice Latin, be it by visiting Vatican or by going to other historical places with countless writings in Latin. Latin is one of four classical languages: Greek, Latin, Sanskrit and Tamil. Tamil being the only classical language still spoken. Edited by Camundonguinho on 11 December 2011 at 11:51am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6583 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 37 of 93 11 December 2011 at 1:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
Dunno how it is in continental Europe, but over here in the north nobody can read Latin, and I suspect it's pretty rare down south, too. I mean, most people over here study French or German in high school, and nobody can understand those languages, either.
Are those languages just arbitrarily chosen, or do you mean that there are actually only four classical languages? Why don't you include Classical Chinese, Arabic or Persian? Edited by Ari on 11 December 2011 at 1:51pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| prz_ Tetraglot Senior Member Poland last.fm/user/prz_rul Joined 4860 days ago 890 posts - 1190 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, Bulgarian, Croatian Studies: Slovenian, Macedonian, Persian, Russian, Turkish, Ukrainian, Dutch, Swedish, German, Italian, Armenian, Kurdish | Message 38 of 93 11 December 2011 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I have never heard about including Tamil into such list (but of course it is one of the languages with very long history)
And well, I've learned Latin at school. On the other hand, it was a shame to have a possibility to learn Latin there and no chance to learn French or Russian, not to mention other languages... Edited by prz_ on 11 December 2011 at 8:11pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Humdereel Octoglot Groupie United States Joined 4979 days ago 90 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English, Spanish*, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written), Turkish, Persian, Urdu Studies: Russian | Message 39 of 93 11 December 2011 at 11:31pm | IP Logged | |||||
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@kanewai: I will definitely go into that. That's why I stopped right at the part where I got to Egypt, since I wanted to make sure I got this part the best I could.:-)
@KSAKSA: Yes, talk about major culture shock. However, it was all worth it in the end.:-) My Months in Egypt I arrived at Cairo and was taken to the American University of Cairo which was the university who had established a program with my university. My first week consisted of getting adjusted to the new place. Cairo was much different, as one would assume, than my city in Texas, in many aspects. I think the transition would've been hard enough had it been a more "western" country like Great Britain or France, but here I was in a country that, although beautiful, was certainly distinct in several ways. However, there were many comforting factors: many of the locals were very nice and the administrators and teachers were as well. Now, onto Arabic! As I stated already, I wasn't at the AUC to actually study Arabic (my focus was on science), but I still managed to make the most out of the experience anyways. On my eigth day, I finally ventured to a local market, and nervously, I used my trusty knowledge of MSA to ask for some fruit. Here's what happened: the vendor chuckled at my use of MSA on the streets, but commended me for my knowledge of it anyways. When I went to the next vendor, the same thing happened, and the next as well. Indeed, I was feeling awkward. While they were being friendly, it wasn't fun to have my use of Arabic being laughed at either. To my relief, I spoke to another vendor, and he didn't actually laugh. When I returned to the market the next day, the vendors actually spoke to me in MSA, at least moreso than they did originally. However, I didn't want to make them feel like they had to use MSA for pleasing me, so I busted out a nice, "Izzayak?" (how are you?) and their faces lightened up each time. From previous practice with my Egyptian friend, I knew that "kwayyis" meant "good" and other basic phrases such as "Axbarak eih?" and whatnot. Afterwards, I sat at a bench, and just listened to the Arabic being spoken around me to see how much I could understand based on my MSA knowledge and basic Egyptian grip. I must admit, that I was fearful that I wouldn't understand a thing. I think it's a fear every Arabic student has to face. Yes, we're told that MSA helps with the dialects, but what if it doesn't? What if we're totally clueless when in an actual Arabic-speaking environment? What if my knowledge of MSA would prove useless after those 3-4 years of hard work? To my relief, what I had been told was true. When I was sitting on that bench listening to some Arabic, I found I understood much of what was being said one moment, but only a little bit the next moment. The pronunciation played a key role. I was used to hearing the "jeem" letter as "j", so I had to make sure I grasped the Cairene pronunciation of "g" as in "great." The same with the softening of "thaa'" and the glottal replacement of "qaf." Once I adjusted my ears to these changes, I felt myself improving slowly. Over the next few weeks, I was watching an Egyptian TV Show (don't remember which, but I'll try to find out) with some of the Egyptian friends I had made and with other American students. Like at the market, I understood 100% one second, and then maybe only 40-50% the next. It was relieving and frustrating at the same time, but not too frustrating since I knew it would take time. Everyday I also tried listening to Egyptian music the most I could, such as the works of Amr Diab, Sherine, and so on. My Arabic-speaking friends would help me with the several phrases I couldn't catch, and I'd check with them if I had translated the parts I understood correctly. When reviewing lists comparing MSA words to preferred Egyptian versions, I found that about 30-40% of them changed, and in these moments it was when I felt like throwing my stuff at the wall. Luckily, I didn't, otherwise my Egyptian friends most certainly felt they were near a crazy person. With time, I realized that many of the words, although different than MSA, were still very much Arabic-based, while a few others were loanwords from other languages. With practice, it didn't become as much of a problem. After the first month, my skills in the dialect had greatly improved. I could now somewhat comfortably converse with the vendors and other customers in the market, though at times I would need to resort to MSA to make sure I was being understood. By then, I had become more comfortable with Egyptian pronunciation, basic and "intermediate" phrases, and several of the verbs that changed. With such, I could now speak good sentences in the dialect. However, when I was listening to other Egyptians talk to fellow Egyptians, it was harder. Not impossible, but it would've required repeats for me to get to 80-100% understanding. For the next month, I kept practicing, and it improved. On the third month, I focused more on delving into the dialect's grammar. It was here that I got frustrated. All of a sudden, the grammar was simpler and some aspects changed, such as changing the position of some of the words. Surely, I thought, if the dialect had different grammar, it was definitely a different language. To my relief (again), I found that it wasn't too difficult to get used to. The dialect was very flexible and there wasn't any "completely wrong" way to say something. With my knowledge of MSA, acquiring knowledge of Egyptian was certainly more accessible. My last two months consisted of continued exposure and practice, and I was so exhilarated in that I felt quite comfortable with Egyptian by the end of my stay. I still wasn't perfect: there were always some idioms that were new to me, a few changes in vocabulary, but nothing that was horrible to surmount. Indeed, I had reached what I would now call "basic to intermediate proficiency" in the dialect. My shift from MSA to Egyptian was not super easy or effortless, but with my knowledge of MSA and practice and even more exposure, I felt very comfortable. When I left Cairo after almost five months, I felt confident in Arabic. I now felt ready to tackle any other dialect I wished. If I hadn't been immersed in Arabic for that length of time, I'm sure it would've taken longer to acquire Egyptian, mostly because materials for the dialect truly lacked at the time. Again, I wasn't perfect in Egyptian, but it was a good level of confidence. If you guys have any further questions about my Egyptian experience, feel free to ask them, I'd like to elaborate as much as I can. :-) Next, I plan to write about my experience with Levantine during three months in Syria. To be continued... 10 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| KSAKSA Groupie Australia Joined 5146 days ago 65 posts - 99 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Arabic (Gulf) | Message 40 of 93 12 December 2011 at 11:29am | IP Logged | |||||
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^^ Sounds like you had an awesome time and really made the very best of being in Egypt even if the language wasn't your original intent. Can't wait to hear about your Syrian experiences.
Egyptian TV was a Godsend to me too...I remember I would watch NileTV every afternoon for the Egyptian soapies. I think NileTV has long gone but they would subtitle their soapies so you could follow the story and see if your translation was correct (I only spoke very beginner at that point - and to be honest, still only speak very begginer!). I've been trying to find some Arab soapies on DVD with translations but they don't seem to be produced - I guess the market just isn't there for them given 99.99% of the people that watch them already speak Arabic and they are such prolific creaters of soapies (I must admit, that is one thing I liked about the soapies - after 2 months or so it was a whole new series, new story line...generally with just the actors swapped aroud - one time an actor would be a fine pasha, the next soapie he could be the bawab!). 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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