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Questions Regarding Arabic | ||
Tags: Choosing a Language | Arabic | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Fortwenster Diglot Newbie United States Joined 4986 days ago 24 posts - 36 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchC1 Studies: Arabic (Written) | Message 49 of 93 18 December 2011 at 9:38pm | IP Logged | ||
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Yes, but isn't it true that Arabs will be willing to reciprocate with you in Modern Standard Arabic? Therefore, a dialect isnt necesary.
I just still find it disappointing that there are so many dialects. I have a friend who's wife was trained at the Defense Language Institute in MSA and Levantine Arabic, and when she was sent to Syria a few years ago, she found that she could not understand a thing in Arabic. She'd catch words and phrases but wouldn't truly comprehend things from the news or TV series or even the locals on the street. Also, I met a man who also went to Egypt and said he spent 14 months and didn't get past basic phrases in Egyptian. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Humdereel Octoglot Groupie United States Joined 4979 days ago 90 posts - 349 votes  Speaks: English, Spanish*, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written), Turkish, Persian, Urdu Studies: Russian | Message 50 of 93 18 December 2011 at 11:38pm | IP Logged | ||
Yes, many Arabs are capable in catering to you with MSA if need be. But do you really want to make them use what they consider a formal register, in an informal context? Remember that to them (and even to me, after all this exposure), MSA is odd in every day situations, best used in the news, literature and poetry, historical contexts, and certain other TV programs. And remember, you're not going to understand everything that they're saying with just MSA. Communication requires understanding from both ends, in my opinion. As for those people you mention, I found both stories odd. From what I know the DLI is a great language institute, though it might be that the woman was used to certain topics and not to others, thus limiting her knowledge of vocabulary and expressions actually used in some TV shows. Other than that, I'm not sure what could've happened. I and many other students have found that once you have a base in MSA and become decently proficient in your dialect, much of that material becomes highly accessible. As for the man in Egypt: it is possible to live and die in Egypt without using Arabic, but if your purpose is to learn the dialect, I don't see how it could have taken so long for just basic knowledge. Either that man didn't make the most of his time, or he wasn't allowed to experience Egyptian culture as most would wish immersion would. EDIT: It seems to me like you're really worried about how you'll learn Arabic. Every Arabic student (and language student in general, I suppose) has moments like this, but if it continues as long as it has been for you, ask yourself whether or not you're truly ready to invest in learning the language. Arabic is a captivating language, and at many times it is like solving a puzzle. If you don't like puzzles or feel that you'll be constantly in doubt, then perhaps Arabic isn't for you. If it's just one of the those moments, however, just keep pushing through. Edited by Humdereel on 18 December 2011 at 11:43pm 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| SmilingStraw Diglot Newbie United States Joined 4911 days ago 35 posts - 37 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Arabic (Written) | Message 51 of 93 19 December 2011 at 12:00am | IP Logged | ||
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I just decided to actually read the thread from front to end and found the discussion very interesting. Its cool to read yor story as well, Humdereel. I suppose I understand the Arabic situation moreso now than before.
One question: Which dialects are considered "odd". For example, which dialects appear to be distinct? I know Maghrebi is, but Ive also often heard that Sudnaese, Iraqi, and Yemeni are also distinct. Why so? In American TV shows, which form of Arabic do they usually use? Do they wrongly use MSA or do they use the dialects? Lastly, what do Arabs think of different dialects? For example, what do some arabs think of Levantine, Egypotian, Maghrebi, and Gulf? Are any held above others? Thx. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Humdereel Octoglot Groupie United States Joined 4979 days ago 90 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English, Spanish*, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written), Turkish, Persian, Urdu Studies: Russian | Message 52 of 93 19 December 2011 at 1:46am | IP Logged | ||
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For some reason, it is true that Iraqi and Yemeni are distinct, as is Sudanese in some cases. Egyptian is also rather distinct, the main difference between it and the others you listed being that it is much more widely understood due to its presence in the popular media. Iraqi has many similarities with the Syrian and Gulf dialects, but many Arabic students find it harder to understand regardless of their previous experience. I can personally understand Iraqi very well. It was my third dialect to tackle (after Egyptian and Levantine), and I found the transition relatively easy but still not effortless. Yemeni is also an odd case, though I have trouble explaining why, as with Iraqi Arabic.
In most English-language TV shows that have featured Arabic, I've heard MSA being spoken. Recently, I caught an episode of NCIS: Los Angeles in which the characters flew to Sudan and used MSA. I also once saw a Nikita episode in which she and the antagonists spoke MSA. I'm sure these aren't the only examples. As for what Arabs think of different dialects, it's hard to say. Levantine is sometimes seen as effeminate, and this has especially been the case with some of the Egyptians I've met. They always talk about those sexy Lebanese women speaking their dialect, and chuckle when they hear a guy say "Shou?" As for what other Arabs think, I'm not sure. It's not a topic that has come up on me during my studies too often. As already stated, Classical and MSA are considered very eloquent, presitigious, and beautiful, but remember that it depends on the context. Egyptian is seen as the "movie" Arabic and some Arabs from the Gulf I met used to refer to Egypt as the "Arab America" for its pop culture. Sometimes Maghrebi is not considered Arabic at all by Middle Easterners. Several times I mentioned it, and once in a while the response would be, "That has nothing to do with Arabic. I don't get it." The third question is indeed complex. 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| SmilingStraw Diglot Newbie United States Joined 4911 days ago 35 posts - 37 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Arabic (Written) | Message 53 of 93 19 December 2011 at 10:31pm | IP Logged | ||
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Ah, I see, thanks.
I recently read about the poet Abu Nawas. With your knowledge of MSA, can you understand his poetry the first time around, or do you have to read/listen to it several times before getting it? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| translator2 Senior Member United States Joined 6920 days ago 848 posts - 1862 votes Speaks: English* | Message 54 of 93 20 December 2011 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have a book (spiral bound and purchased on e-bay) called "Introduction to Colloquial Arabic" by Margaret K. Nydell, Diplomatic Language Services, Inc., 335 pages
"...The purpose of this course is to present the basic characteristics shared by all colloquial Arabic dialects, and to examine the differences between spoken Colloquial Arabic and MSA." It describes the way all the dialects differ from MSA and how they differ from each other. It also provides all the words in a chart showing the transliteration of thousands of words in MSA, Moroccan, Tunisian, Egyptian, Syrian, Iraqi and Gulf Arabic. There is also a section on the verbs and grammar for these dialects as well. Perhaps it can be found elsewhere and I think it is essential for a serious Arabic student. Edited by translator2 on 20 December 2011 at 6:34pm 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Humdereel Octoglot Groupie United States Joined 4979 days ago 90 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English, Spanish*, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written), Turkish, Persian, Urdu Studies: Russian | Message 55 of 93 20 December 2011 at 7:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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@SmilingStraw: Yes, I can understand most of Abu Nuwas's poetry. Since he wrote in classical Arabic, it is rather very close to MSA, but there are some words -- either archaic or more "flowery" that I have to look up once in a while. Occasionally, the words change meanings but it's usually not much of a hurdle.
@translator2: Yes, I love that book, thanks for mentioning it. From my experience, much of the information in it is accurate. I would also highly recommend it to those interested in the language. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| TalkativeHoopoe Tetraglot Newbie United States Joined 4748 days ago 11 posts - 13 votes Speaks: Spanish, Persian, Pashto*, English | Message 56 of 93 20 December 2011 at 9:06pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'm almsot finished learning the script and think its incredibly fun to write in Arabic. I'm still planning on an Arabic grammar book, however. Jane Wightwick's material seems promising, but "Arabic for Life" also draws my attention.
Any recommendations? Thanks. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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