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Not to vs. to not | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| a3 Triglot Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 5257 days ago 273 posts - 370 votes  Speaks: Bulgarian*, English, Russian Studies: Portuguese, German, Italian, Spanish, Norwegian, Finnish | Message 1 of 8 22 December 2011 at 7:46am | IP Logged | |||||
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Ever since I remember I've been using not to in English in sentences like
'I'm trying not to think about it.' However, recently I've noticed several sentences using to not instead of not to. I can't recall what they were. So which one is correct: to not or not to? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 2 of 8 22 December 2011 at 11:46am | IP Logged | |||||
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In your example, "not to" is correct. It's far more common than "to not", and the two mean different things.
For saying "this is not the reason", use "not to" (often contrasted with "but to", which gives the correct reason): I'm going to France, not to visit Paris, but to spend some time on the beach. If you're doing something for a negative reason, you can use "to not", such as this example from the New Yorker: I'm moving to France to not get fat Ie to avoid getting fat or to prevent it. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| jdmoncada Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 5035 days ago 470 posts - 741 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Finnish Studies: Russian, Japanese | Message 3 of 8 22 December 2011 at 5:03pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Strictly speaking, "not to" is correct from a classical grammar point where one does not split the infinitive. Something like "to not talk" is a split infinitive, and that's considered a bad no-no. Of course, the analysis of grammar and descriptions came from languages which use only one word for an infinitive, thus making it impossible to split it.
In practical and actual use, I hear both, and while there may be a subtle semantic difference, it's more a personal choice. You could choose to be grammatically correct in this without seeming to be stuffy. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| fiziwig Senior Member United States Joined 4866 days ago 297 posts - 618 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 4 of 8 22 December 2011 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I would use "...try not to think about it." The other is understandable, but sounds a little "uneducated" to my ears. It makes me think of stereotypical "hillbilly dialect" sentences like "I tries to not think about them there dogs." In other words, I associate it with a lower level of education and with sloppy grammar. Maybe that's just me, being too fussy.
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| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 5 of 8 22 December 2011 at 6:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, but English is not a Classical language. Those prescriptivist rules were never based on genuine English and should be ignored. "To not" is a perfectly normal part of everyday English usage. Splitting the infinitive is nonsense because "to" is no more part of the infinitive that "the" is part of the noun. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| sipes23 Diglot Senior Member United States pluteopleno.com/wprs Joined 4871 days ago 134 posts - 235 votes Speaks: English*, Latin Studies: Spanish, Ancient Greek, Persian | Message 6 of 8 22 December 2011 at 6:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
It doesn't sound hillbilly, let alone sloppy (as it feels all too systematic) to me. It sounds like a shift of emphasis. Neutral: I'm trying not to think about it. Emphatic: I'm trying to not think about it. Neutral: I'm hoping not to see him. Emphatic: I'm hoping to not see him. Or at least this shift in emphasis is how it seems to me. However, there is a shift in meaning here: Lack of desire: I do not want to think about it. Desire for negative/lack of action: I (do) want to not think about it. But some of that is due to how English forms negatives. Sometimes moving the "not" destroys the sense of the sentence, particularly where "not" is used in a correlative sense. Sense: I run not to avoid sickness but to stay healthy. ????: I run to not avoid sickness but to stay healthy. So yeah, I'd agree with a prior post. It's a subtle bit of business. Edited by sipes23 on 22 December 2011 at 6:18pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6551 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 7 of 8 22 December 2011 at 7:13pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I'm trying not to think about it = I'm trying to not think about it
In this case, the meanings are exactly the same, and they are both correct. I'm moving to France not to get fat (but to chase women). I'm moving to France to not get fat (since I need to diet and I'm allergic to French food). In this case , the meanings are different, and I added some possible filler words for clarification. Again, they are both correct. Summary: they are both correct, but sometimes have different meanings. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| fiziwig Senior Member United States Joined 4866 days ago 297 posts - 618 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 8 of 8 23 December 2011 at 12:12am | IP Logged | |||||
Yeah, I can see that. So I was being too fussy. It's that old 1950's prescriptivist grammar school training kicking in. :) I also agree that the whole "splitting the infinitive" this is a non-issue in English. It was the crusty old grammarians trying to apply Latin rules to English. I've been known to often split infinitives myself. (See how I worked that in there? Cute, eh?) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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