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Most phonetic Spanish dialect? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 5131 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes  Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 9 of 15 09 January 2012 at 2:21am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
That's pretty subjective. Who are these "people" you refer to? R. == 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 10 of 15 09 January 2012 at 12:00pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
This is a process known as "lenition" (weakening/softening) and it's a very distinctive feature of the Iberian Romance languages. The first step of the historical lenition process was the movement of P, T, C -> B, D, G. This is why the Italian past participle endings -ato/-uto/-ito have T, but Spanish has -ado/-ido with D. Note, though, that this lenition usually only happens to single consonants between vowels (termed "intervocalic"), hence the preservation of T in irregular forms such as abierto, muerto and visto, where the T is next to another consonant. "Escrito" and "frito" may seem like rule-breakers, but if you look at the Italian "scritto" and "fritto", you'll see that historically the T was non-intervocalic. Almost all dialects of Spanish have further lenition of B when it's intervocalic (in its non-intervocalic form, the mouth closes fully, but not in the intervocalic form) and the lenition of D and G are logically equivalent. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5454 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 11 of 15 10 January 2012 at 1:05am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
Scriptus and frigitus in Latin, I think. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5454 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 12 of 15 10 January 2012 at 1:25am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
Dialects which distinguish between Y and LL are more "phonetic" in this regard (better correspondence between phonemes and written language).
Doesn't make it more "phonetic" than Peninsular Spanish.
Doesn't make it more "phonetic" than Peninsular Spanish.
Doesn't make it more "phonetic" than Peninsular Spanish (and many other dialects).
It is not important, as demonstrated by the fact that most Spanish speakers speak "seseo" dialects. However, dialects with "distinción" have better correspondence between phonemes and written language, which makes them "phonetic".
The dialects of Northern Spain and the dialects of Southern Spain are different dialects. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Camundonguinho Triglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 4750 days ago 273 posts - 500 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English, Spanish Studies: Swedish | Message 13 of 15 10 January 2012 at 5:22am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
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Please clarify what you mean by ''the most phonetic''
1/ the greatest number of phones 2/ the fewest number of phones 3/ the best grapheme-to-phone correspondence 4/the best grapheme-to-allophone correspondence 5/the best grapheme-to-phoneme correspondence From my experience, the best spellers are Uruguayans which means educative system is more important than the number of sound distinctions. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5431 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 14 of 15 10 January 2012 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
With all due respect, this is a meaningless question. The writing system of Spanish, and of the majority of the world's languages, is not a phonetic transcription. Through a series of spelling reforms, the Spanish writing system has been simplified and reflects reasonably well the grammatical system. But the writing system doesn't have any sounds. A dialect or language cannot sound like a written form. It makes no sense, for example, to ask which variety of English sounds closest to the way English is written. What some people are attempting to do here is demonstrate which variety of Spanish pronounces all the written letters. That's a dubious undertaking at best. Should the v in variedad be considered a distinct sound from the b in barbaridad? And what about all the variants of the pronunciation of the letter d. All of this is a waste of time. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5454 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 15 of 15 10 January 2012 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
I'm not sure if your question is directed at me (since I answered your post) or at the OP. Both (1) and (2) seem like quite unusual definitions of "most phonetic" (in so far as speaking about "the most phonetic dialect" is meaningful at all). (3) and (4) don't make much sense for Spanish since the whole Spanish spelling system is based around a compromise between a grapheme-to-phoneme principle and various other factors such as etymology and tradition. So, I'd go for (5). 1 person has voted this message useful |
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