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Languages Without Rolling ’R’s?? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5847 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes  1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 9 of 41 19 November 2011 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | ||
The Danish and the German "R" are the same! When I learned Dutch in 1982, I had to learn how to pronounce these rolling "Rs" by using a mirror to control it. But for me it was possible to learn it well. Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 19 November 2011 at 12:29pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5056 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 10 of 41 19 November 2011 at 12:38pm | IP Logged | ||
The Greek certainly roll their Rs. The Dutch pronounce either an alveolar or a guttural sound. Some Germans roll their Rs too (Hitler, for example). Don't Anglophones hear the difference between their R and the "rolled" one or can't they pronounce the rolled R correctly? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6582 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 11 of 41 19 November 2011 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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Swedish as spoken in Scania, in the south of Sweden (in the territory once controlled by Denmark) has no rolling Rs.
It's a pretty well-known, strong and widespread dialect, so you could probably get away with speaking that. Cantonese doesn't have any Rs at all, rolling or otherwise. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| WentworthsGal Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4888 days ago 191 posts - 246 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Swedish, Spanish | Message 12 of 41 19 November 2011 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks Mapk. I think I just don't have the ability to roll my r's. We can certainly hear the difference, and as I mentioned before, many of us can roll them. On occasion, in the middle of words I can get a little rrrr sound but it usually ends up as llll lol. It would be interesting to know whether I would still have this problem if English had rolled r's too and I would have heard and learnt it from an early age.
Does anyone in a rolling r speaking country heard of people who can't roll their r's despite growing up with it? Maybe it's like a lisp but for R and not S? Ari, my hero!! I shall definitely be Googling the Scania dialect :o) I am loving Swedish even more now :o) edit: Ari, I just Googled and found Wikipedia's input. I've actually heard Skåne mentioned before :o) which is good. It mentions Malmö as being part of this area... I've been watching Wallander and it seems that Malmö is fairly close to Ystad?? Assuming that the actors are speaking with a local accent to Ystad, do they speak with a Scania dialect or accent? I've not thought about listening out for different Rs but I will definitely be listening for it in future :o) Edited by WentworthsGal on 19 November 2011 at 2:24pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| vonPeterhof Tetraglot Senior Member Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4772 days ago 715 posts - 1527 votes Speaks: Russian*, EnglishC2, Japanese, German Studies: Kazakh, Korean, Norwegian, Turkish | Message 13 of 41 19 November 2011 at 4:41pm | IP Logged | ||
Yes, it is pretty common. Here in Russia R and L are the sounds that little kids struggle with the most, we even have speech therapists in some kindergartens. I remember my speech therapist in Saint Petersburg kept saying that I was a lost cause and that I would never be able to roll my R, but after I moved to Kazakhstan at the age of six I just sorta learned it on my own. However, my cousins who stayed in Saint Petersburg and my little brothers who grew up in that city after we moved back pronounce their R's in the German way. I don't know if it's familial or regional, but it does occur and it is considered a speech impediment. In fact, there is a condition called ankyloglossia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankyloglossia) which makes rolling one's R difficult. In Russia and many other countries it gets treated in a very simple operation, but in English-speaking countries many people never even realize they have it. I remember reading an article about an English girl who had that operation to improve her Korean pronunciation. The people were discussing it as if she was being unreasonably perfectionist and a complete language fanatic, going as far as "cutting off a piece of her tongue to pronounce some sounds better", while here in Russia the only strange thing about the situation would be that she was getting that operation as an adult - most people who have that condition here get treated in early childhood. As for the discussion at hand, I heard that Dutch has a variety of dialects, and some of them have the rolling R, while others have the German and even the English R. Other languages that have guttural R's that have not been mentioned can be found here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guttural_R Edited by vonPeterhof on 19 November 2011 at 8:11pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| prz_ Tetraglot Senior Member Poland last.fm/user/prz_rul Joined 4859 days ago 890 posts - 1190 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, Bulgarian, Croatian Studies: Slovenian, Macedonian, Persian, Russian, Turkish, Ukrainian, Dutch, Swedish, German, Italian, Armenian, Kurdish | Message 14 of 41 19 November 2011 at 4:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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Rolling r is nothing in comparison to the guttural French r.
...Of course from my perspective ;) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jdmoncada Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 5034 days ago 470 posts - 741 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Finnish Studies: Russian, Japanese | Message 15 of 41 19 November 2011 at 4:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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I wouldn't say that German doesn't have a rolled R, but it's a uvular roll versus a dental flap.
Because I can pronounce it (my sympathies, Wentworth's gal), I've always found it a very fun thing to do. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ReQuest Tetraglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 5032 days ago 200 posts - 228 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, German, French Studies: Spanish | Message 16 of 41 19 November 2011 at 5:00pm | IP Logged | ||
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As for Dutch(natives speaker), there are actually 3 R's (in general)
1: The american like R, de gooische r, is a lot more commen nowadays because a lot of people on tv use it, it is however asociated with het gooi, where all rich people live, when using it you might be called a kakker, a curseword for rich/annoying/arogant people. This r is mostly used at the end of a word. Maar, enz but it would be a bit strange to use it for rood, for example, that really sounds foreign. 2:The most commen R is a sort off gluterral r, a bit like the French r, but shorter though, it's a bit rolled, but not really that much. 3: The third is a more rolled r, a bit like in Spanish (front of the mouth) but a lot shorter as in Spanish, (I actually had to learn the Spanish one, some people can just do it though, but not that many). So using this typpical Spanish R might have some people to look at you with a questional look (eyes?) (hope my English was all right, would love to claryfy if needed) Edited by ReQuest on 19 November 2011 at 5:02pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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