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Languages Without Rolling ’R’s?? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4949 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 17 of 41 19 November 2011 at 6:03pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Is the guttural R phenomenon still spreading in Europe? As I understand it, it didn't exist 300 years ago.
As a couple of funny sidenotes, in Spanish, pronouncing the 'r' with your throat is seen as a sign of illiteracy or even slight mental handicap (no offense whatsoever intended, just stating what the attitude is for better or worse). Also, ABBA know how to roll their R's. Certainly easy for them because Swedish has that same exact sound. But they famously and incorrectly rolled their "R" in the word parar in the song 'La Reina del Baile', which is of course "Dancing Queen". And not once, the entire song ("parrrar"). I've always wondered why they never decided to correct it. But now it's a charming association. Otherwise, their pronounciation is surprisingly flawless, and not Castilian, but neutral. Edited by outcast on 19 November 2011 at 6:07pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6582 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 18 of 41 19 November 2011 at 6:35pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Here is a piece of audio coupled with transcription in standard orthography as well as a more phonetic version. Click on the speaker to listen. It's a young woman with a strong Scania accent and no rolling 'r's. If you surf around the site, there are recordings of a variety of speakers from all over Sweden, in an attempt to document our dialects. It could be a good tool for practicing understanding, since all of it is coupled with transcriptions.
I don't think Wallander is done in the Scania dialect, though I haven't seen much. If you're into reggae and political hip hop, however, Scania is leading the pack. Check this out: Timbuktu is a pretty talented rapper with a Scania accent (but the guy who's rapping towards the end has a more standard accent with rolling 'r's). It is said that Bob Marley once said that there's only one white man with Reggae in his blood, and that's Peps Persson. He's also got the strongest Scania accent I've ever heard. Svenska akademien is a political band that's quite popular and has a distinct Scania accent. Scania is also great with comedy: Johan Glans is one of Sweden's funniest men. And to top it off, for Swedes and advanced learners, here's a very funny radio clip that details six Scania dialects (you didn't think there was just one, did you?): Skånska dialekter. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tritone Senior Member United States reflectionsinpo Joined 6120 days ago 246 posts - 385 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, French | Message 19 of 41 19 November 2011 at 6:42pm | IP Logged | |||||
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At what point did the English stop rolling their Rs? How did that come about? It always sounded like a speech impediment to me - the way they pronounce words like "earlier"
Does anybody know when and why this happened? Edited by tritone on 19 November 2011 at 6:43pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5056 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 20 of 41 19 November 2011 at 7:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
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It's a really difficult sound, although very widespread. I couldn't pronounce soft R till
six, hard R - till seven, hard L - till nine. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| vonPeterhof Tetraglot Senior Member Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4772 days ago 715 posts - 1527 votes Speaks: Russian*, EnglishC2, Japanese, German Studies: Kazakh, Korean, Norwegian, Turkish | Message 21 of 41 19 November 2011 at 8:31pm | IP Logged | |||||
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Leipzig Hexaglot Newbie Wales Joined 4803 days ago 22 posts - 33 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchC2, Lowland Scots, SpanishC2, Portuguese, Catalan Studies: Welsh, Tok Pisin, German, Italian | Message 22 of 41 19 November 2011 at 8:48pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Regarding the uvular R - I recall having read about how it used to be how <r> was
realised in the accents of Durham and Northumberland. As for the alveolar trill, it has not entirely died in English English. I recall having heard it used in alteration with the alveolar approximant by a fair few people growing up, like Jake Thackray (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xod5YAw1_mI), and you can hear still it in front of vowels in some Brummies' speech. I'd advise the OP that it would be best not to limit your linguistic aspirations just because of your difficulty with a single sound. If you are really intrigued by a language, don't let it get in your way; as Ari has been saying, there is dialectical variation in most languages. When I'm teaching languages, I try to take into account the sounds the learners feel confident in producing and try to find a dialect that fits; I've had folk worried about not being able to produce /ð/ or /θ/ until I got them speaking with Irish accents. Even if you can't mask the r dialectically, try not to let it stop you - even native speakers can't sometimes. I'll always remembering how Lenin was said to have used /ʀ/ rather than /r/. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Kanishka Triglot Newbie Italy Joined 4928 days ago 15 posts - 32 votes Speaks: Italian*, English, French Studies: Persian, Pashto, Dari | Message 23 of 41 19 November 2011 at 10:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
Here I am ;) I never learned Italian's rolling "r", I always pronounce it as an uvular one. When he was young, < 6 years old, my little brother also pronounced it like that; afterwards, however, he has learned it. He probably just imitated me :D Speech therapists in Italy do not correct the uvular "r"; it's considered just a "chic" trait. Also, depending on your voice, it could be stronger or weaker; I have a baritone voice and often people do not spot my uvular pronunciation. Edited by Kanishka on 19 November 2011 at 10:23pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| PaulLambeth Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5373 days ago 244 posts - 315 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Icelandic, Hindi, Irish | Message 24 of 41 20 November 2011 at 2:27am | IP Logged | |||||
Indeed - the British south-east accent (spreading across much of Britain) is non-rhotic so I don't understand why it should sound like a speech-impediment. It's just not an r, at all, and a schwa at the end of words, unless it's at the beginning in which case it sounds similar to the standard American r. If you go to Scotland, or a select few other areas, there is a distinct rolled r still though. Tok Pisin has an alveolar tap, which is quite different from a roll. Many of the words borrowed from English naturally maintained a lack of r, as they were copying Brits. I don't know how much of that is causal. Edited by PaulLambeth on 20 November 2011 at 2:36am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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