Languages Without Rolling ’R’s?? (Specific Languages) Language Learning Forum

Languages Without Rolling ’R’s??
Tags: Multilingual \| Choosing a Language \| Pronunciation
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Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages

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Марк
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Russian Federation
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Speaks: Russian*

Message 25 of 41

20 November 2011 at 7:27am | IP Logged

vonPeterhof wrote:

tritone wrote:

At what point did the English stop rolling their
Rs? How did that come about? It always sounded like a speech impediment to me - the
way they pronounce words like "earlier"

Does anybody know when and why this happened?

I am confused about what you are asking. It looks like you are not talking
about rolling the R (something that is much more common in England than it is in the
US), but about R-dropping, or non-rhoticity. If you are talking about the latter, then
according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhotic_and_non-rhotic_accents#
Development_of_non-rhotic_accents) it started as far back as the 15th century, but it
did not spread immediately all over the country, which is probably why rhoticity was
preserved in North American English. It even survives in some dialects of England, like
the Bristol dialect of the character Vicky Pollard from the show Little Britain
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxifmyYcOws). Conversely, some non-rhotic American
dialects also exist, like the New England dialects, although they seem to be losing
that feature these days.

Old English had the same r as in Russian. But modern English, except some Scottish
variants, has an approximant.
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Марк
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Russian Federation
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Speaks: Russian*

Message 26 of 41

20 November 2011 at 7:30am | IP Logged

Leipzig wrote:

Regarding the uvular R - I recall having read about how it used to be
how <r> was
realised in the accents of Durham and Northumberland. As for the alveolar trill, it has
not entirely died in English English. I recall having heard it used in alteration with
the alveolar approximant by a fair few people growing up, like Jake Thackray
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xod5YAw1_mI), and you can hear still it in front of
vowels in some Brummies' speech.

I'd advise the OP that it would be best not to limit your linguistic aspirations just
because of your difficulty with a single sound. If you are really intrigued by a
language, don't let it get in your way; as Ari has been saying, there is dialectical
variation in most languages. When I'm teaching languages, I try to take into account
the sounds the learners feel confident in producing and try to find a dialect that
fits; I've had folk worried about not being able to produce /ð/ or /θ/ until I got them
speaking with Irish accents. Even if you can't mask the r dialectically, try not to let
it stop you - even native speakers can't sometimes. I'll always remembering how Lenin
was said to have used /ʀ/ rather than /r/.

Imitating various dialects and mixing them is not a good suggestion. Some variants are
considered standart, some are not. Some are widespreas, some aren't.
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RatoDePorão
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Brazil
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Message 27 of 41

20 November 2011 at 1:24pm | IP Logged

Brazilian Portuguese (my accent.....there are 3 different Rs in Brazil :P)

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FireViN
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Brazil
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Message 28 of 41

20 November 2011 at 1:47pm | IP Logged

RatoDePorão wrote:

Brazilian Portuguese (my accent.....there are 3 different Rs in Brazil :P)

Don't you roll your r in trama? Do we have a piracicabano here? :D
In my accent (Campinas/SP) we use all three Rs.

I guess it's still a rolled r, even though softer than Spanish rr (but hey, my grandma say carro with Spanish rr). I'm possibly wrong.

About the thread:
French, maybe? It's not uncommon here to hear kids changing the r for l (prato/plato) in portuguese, so yes, it's not an easy sound to produce. It takes some time to master, some of my friends still have trouble sometimes, but I bet you can do it, just practice (:
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WentworthsGal
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United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name
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Speaks: English*
Studies: Swedish, Spanish

Message 29 of 41

20 November 2011 at 1:57pm | IP Logged

Thanks everyone for your input :o)

Just to reassure anyone who's worried... I will never ever avoid a language just because I can't make the R sound :o) I love languages too much to do that :o)

On reflection, I realised that I can't always pronounce the English R properly either lol, and it comes out a bit W like sometimes... R is just not my letter lol. But people still understand me, and also those who have even more difficulty in pronouncing their R's and S's properly are still understood by most if not all people.

I'll avoid the operation tho lol, altho it's very interesting to hear about as I've never heard of it before.

I also prefer it when English is being spoken as a target language, with an accent. So I'm sure there are people out there who would enjoy my unusual and maybe cute pronounciation... My fiance and daughter certainly like it when I say "project" in English lol! So... it's all good :o)

Thank you to everyone who has replied :o)

oh... and I'm glad I'm not the only one who can't roll their rrrrrrs lol :o)

Edited by WentworthsGal on 20 November 2011 at 1:58pm
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RatoDePorão
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Message 30 of 41

20 November 2011 at 3:59pm | IP Logged

FireViN wrote:

RatoDePorão wrote:

Brazilian Portuguese (my accent.....there are 3 different Rs in Brazil :P)

hehe my grandpa sometimes rolls his Rs (when he says "vem ver a merrrrrrrrda que você fez" hahahaaha), it sounds funny, but as you mentioned the word "trama", I don't know whether it's rolled, it's more like "semi"-rolled (??) because we just touch our teeth with the tip of our tongues (at a lighting fast speed, more like whipping :P), we don't necessarily roll the Rs in words such as 'trama' and 'paralelepipedo'

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Brun Ugle
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Norway
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Message 31 of 41

24 November 2011 at 12:22pm | IP Logged

In Norwegian, you can choose. In some places they roll their r's and in some places they have a gutteral type of r. So, if you want to speak like a vestlending, (f.eks. from Bergen or that area), you don't need to roll your r's. (It's not a very pretty dialect though, in my opinion. Makes my ears itch.)

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Arekkusu
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Message 32 of 41

24 November 2011 at 2:22pm | IP Logged

I would think it would be much simpler if you just learned to make R. Everyone can and so can you. You
seem to have accepted that you can't make the sound and that this is just you, but that's most certainly false.
I encourage you to seek the help of a teacher or linguist specialized in pronunciation.

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