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Reasons for studying some small languages | ||
Tags: Norway | Rare Languages | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5335 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 1 of 39 10 February 2012 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | ||
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I so often see discussions here on what the best and most useful languages are. Spanish is mentioned, and French and Japanese and Mandarin. Seldom do I see Swedish, Danish, Finnish, Norwegian or Dutch mentioned, but actually for anyone with a EU passport, these are perhaps some of the most useful languages they could learn.
Today a friend sent me a link to a You tube clip about Spaniards who are sleeping in the streets of Norway. They come to Norway with no linguistic skills, no money,no connections and think they can get a well paid job. And the sad thing is that if only they spoke Norwegian, or at the very least very good English, they could get their dreams fulfilled on the spot. Norway has 3% unemployment, we need 16 000 engineers, and our hospitals are full of people from all over the Western hemisphere, a large proportion of those working in bars and shops in Oslo are Swedish. We need skilled labour in almost every possible category - but also with languages skills. We have a very high standard of living and are routinely voted best country in the world to live in, but obviously people need to speak the language. And those Spaniards who do come here with some knowledge of English, often speaks English so badly, that quite literally, an 8 year old Norwegian would laugh at them. I cannot speak for the other countries I mention above, but I suspect that there are also great opportunities for people who know these languages well. It rips my heart out to see the You tube clip below, and I would like to find a way to help them, but my husband keeps reminding that I cannot save the entire world. For those of you who are interested, paste this sentence into Google, and you'll get to the You tube clip. (It is in Spanish though...) ( 012; españoles en Noruega, mendigando y recogiendo latas de la basura ... ) I am having three Spanish girls over to live with us this summer, in order for them to learn English, and one of them even Norwegian. The Spaniards are starting to see that it is necessary to learn languages. Do you guys at all think of the small countries with lots of job opportunities when you pick a language? And if you already are studying one of these languages, and someone gets on your case, I hope you remind them that thanks to your hobby, you are in a better position than they are to actually get an interesting job abroad. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Northernlights Groupie United Kingdom Joined 4676 days ago 73 posts - 93 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French | Message 2 of 39 10 February 2012 at 2:06pm | IP Logged | ||
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How sad about those Spanish people sleeping on the streets. You hear on the news about the dreadful economic situation, the property market crash and high unemployment in Spain, but seeing individuals in such distressing circumstances brings it home so much more.
Norway is beautiful and I can imagine it'd be a nice place to live. My forum name might give away something about what I think of the northern countries :-) If I went there for longer than a few weeks I'd try to learn some of the language, but I wouldn't otherwise. In reply to your question about small countries with job opportunities when we pick a language, I'd do it in reverse: if a job opportunity arose, I'd learn the language, but only after getting the job. I need to improve my French if I want to train in my chosen location, but French is hardly a 'small' language, and I've got several friends there already too. Back to the Spanish people in Norway, I suppose because Norway is not in the EU, they're not entitled to any social security benefits? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4708 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 3 of 39 10 February 2012 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think security benefits hold for Norway, Switzerland, Liechtenstein and Iceland as well...
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5335 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 4 of 39 10 February 2012 at 2:11pm | IP Logged | ||
Even if we are not EU-members, we are part of the European Economic Area, which in terms of worker's rights, is the same thing. They are entitled to immediate help, like anyone else, and if they have worked here any period of time, they will be entitled to heaps of benefits, but they need to find a proper job. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Camundonguinho Triglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 4750 days ago 273 posts - 500 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English, Spanish Studies: Swedish | Message 5 of 39 10 February 2012 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hi Solfrid, I like Norwegian, but the pronunciation is difficult, especially tones.
Why do you Norwegians expect us foreigners to get them right when not even in dictionaries made for foreigners you don't indicate them (1 = rising in East Norway; 2=falling in East Norway). :( It's frustrating. :( 3 gender system is easy for me, but the tones are not :( I've heard that some dialects in Northern Norway lack tones, but still, they are important if you want to sound Norwegian and not foreign, they are crucial for the right intonation and rhythm (even if we neglect the differentiation part). I am learning Norwegian because it sounds stunning. I have a friend in Oslo, and she gave me a CD of Dina. I fell in love with the magic of this language: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BLTlZp8cFM I think one should learn at least some basic Norwegian before going there, at least as a gesture of respect. Edited by Camundonguinho on 10 February 2012 at 2:58pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5335 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 6 of 39 10 February 2012 at 2:40pm | IP Logged | ||
As the pronuniciation fanatic that I am, I do of course appreciate that you want to get the tones right, but even if you don't it will not be a problem. Off the top of my head I can think of 4-5 words were that would have any consequence for the meaning, so there is no need to worry. Anyway, most people learn from listening, not from reading about tones in books, so with lots of audio, it should be a walk in the park. Most foreigners have to work on what we call the "language melody", but if you get the rest of the language right, you will be fine. We are not really spoiled with people who can talk Norwegian fluently, so we appreciate any effort. :-) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jazzboy.bebop Senior Member Norway norwegianthroughnove Joined 5419 days ago 439 posts - 800 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Norwegian | Message 7 of 39 10 February 2012 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | ||
If you want a dictionary that also tells you the tone for each word (at least the tone for words in Øst-Norsk dialects) check out the Einar Haugen NOR-ENG dictionary There are a number of editions, best to go with the more recent ones but so far I've found my 1965 one that I picked up in a charity shop for £2 very useful. In Øst-Norsk, tone 1 starts with a low pitch and then rises while tone 2 starts at a medium pitch, dips down to a lower pitch and then rises to a high pitch. If you listen carefully enough though, especially to audiobooks and try to shadow the speaker you'll start to get more of a feel for it. Since starting Mandarin I've found using the correct Norwegian tones much easier. Norwegian tones are very much like tones 2 and 3 in Mandarin but across more than one syllable. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5010 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 8 of 39 10 February 2012 at 3:12pm | IP Logged | ||
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1.A lot of people don't think that far in future. If they think they might need to work
abroad one day, they will learn a huge language because it is more probable they will use it. Only few people have a detailed dream "When I am finished with my studies, I will work in Norway/Netherlands/Sweden/Czech Republic whichever other small country". 2.To begin learning when you are in the immediate need to move abroad for job is late. The more that you are usually in a bad financial situation as well at the moment. 3.People in the northern countries in particular are said to all speak perfect English so not many people learn the language just out of the interest or for travel reasons. 4. The trouble is that most European countries these days could do with engineers, doctors, nurses, etc but still most people study humanities because it is easier. In Czech Republic it is the same and even though the doctors at public hospitals are payed badly, for exemple the stomatologists or the engineers in general cannot complain and there are lots of job opportunities for them. Late to tell people in their middle years. Even the language won't help them if there is no more place for their specialisation unless they find another education. 5.This lack of language skills is mainly caused by the common belief that languages are taught at school or at expensive language courses. Nearly no public school in Europe will teach small languages so the people just don't learn them. 6.It is great to hear of great job opportunities in Norway from a Norwegian but what I heard from other sources, the northern countries (especially Sweden and Norway) are difficult to settle in and get a job. It is said to be more difficult than in France or Germany or even Great Britain. I am not sure why is it that common belief but I've heard it from various sources. I'm not sure the system of benefits is such a great reason to move in Norway because it is weighted out by the high taxes. I don't believe much in large redistribution of money and I cannot understand how it can work that well for Norway (even though it obviously does, unlike for other countries both now and in the past). But I just believe people should have most of their earned money for spending or investment of their own choice and give the state only the necessary minimum. So, where was I going before getting caught by the current of thoughts... Yes. It is no worth to tell language lovers who have no trouble with it. The system could be changed if more people believed in self-teaching of languages or if they got more support from official institutions. Not necessarily public schools but from the institutions founded by northern countries if you are in need of employees. Why is there no widely known cultural and language learning institution Sweden or Norway? For exemple in Prague, there is the Institut Francais, Cervantes, Goethe, the British council and similar institution of Poland, Italy, Portugal, Russia, and several others. But when I was looking for a Swedish library, I got only information about a group of czech Skandinavian lovers running such thing in their own free time. The only Swedish institut outside Sweden is in Paris. No wonder few people consider the small countries to be a real option because most of them don't even realize they are out there. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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