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From the grammar book to your mouth | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5057 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes  Speaks: Russian* | Message 25 of 58 14 February 2012 at 9:20pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I can conjugate and decline practically any Russian word separately withut any problems. Edited by Марк on 14 February 2012 at 9:21pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| LaughingChimp Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4700 days ago 346 posts - 594 votes Speaks: Czech* | Message 26 of 58 14 February 2012 at 10:23pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
So you say that russians can write a table like this without much thinking? Most czechs would struggle, even though they can use them when speaking. jednotné číslo množné číslo 1. pád kolo kola 2. pád kola kol 3. pád kolu kolům 4. pád kolo kola 5. pád kolo kola 6. pád kole kolech 7. pád kolem koly
It doesn't matter it's regular. Edited by LaughingChimp on 14 February 2012 at 10:40pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5057 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 27 of 58 15 February 2012 at 8:45am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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So you say that russians can write a table like this without much thinking? Most czechs
would struggle, even though they can use them when speaking. I'm Russian and I have been able to do it since the second grade probably. I didn't check but probably many people can. I don't see any difficulty here. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5227 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 28 of 58 15 February 2012 at 9:16am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Different language, case in point. Spanish verb conjugation is said to be terribly complicated. Anyone above 40 who attended school should be able to write full conjugation tables without breaking sweat, and should have been since 9. Including most irregulars. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5335 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 29 of 58 15 February 2012 at 10:18am | IP Logged | ||||||||
We have very different language teaching systems in the different countries. Norwegian has one of the easiest conjugation systems there is, but I still could not write a conjugation table if my life depended on it. What on earth would I do that for? What could it possibly bring me, in my own language, that I do no already know? I know what to say, and which forms to use. When I did Spanish at the university I did have that discussion with my teachers, because I never saw the point in doing grammar, other than for learning how to use the language, and I already knew how to use the language. Our language exam consisted of one part translation, one part grammar. Out of approximately 100 students, I got the best grade in translation, and the very worst in grammar. My teacher said they had counted correct usage of commas in order to be able to pass me in grammar. And I still do not get why one should learn the grammar in a language you already know. Now learning Russian grammar, that is a whole different ball game, because I do not know Russian, but in your own language:useless. And even for foreign languages, I have seen so many times that it can be a hinderance to learning to speak the language. In Spain I have attended French classes where they came out of the class knowing everything there was to know about French adjectives, but whould have been unable to ask for a pair of blue jeans. Or an icecream. Or a cup of coffee. In France my English teacher would also know more about English grammar than I ever want to know, but she was still very proud that she could pronounce the h in "an hour..." Even as a 14 years' old I did not have the heart to tell her how wrong that was. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5431 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 30 of 58 15 February 2012 at 1:10pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I have to agree with Solfrid on this. There is an important distinction. You have to know grammar to speak a language, but you do not know have to know about grammar. Learning conjugation or declension tables by rote is, in my mind, one of the worst things one can do when learning a language. The tables are to be used as references. The real issue is how to incorporate this material into meaningful patterns that can be assimilated.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 31 of 58 15 February 2012 at 2:56pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
And yes, I'd write a table like that easily. I might need to use questions like "to see WHAT?", "to think of WHAT?" like we were taught at school. Interestingly, it would be more difficult for me with Finnish just because I obviously didn't learn them all at a time and I just acquired them as groups of cases. I don't think I've ever made a full table for any noun so the biggest problem would be making sure I remember to list all the cases. Filling a list with the cases already listed though, even in random order? Easy. Edited by Serpent on 15 February 2012 at 3:04pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| PillowRock Groupie United States Joined 4735 days ago 87 posts - 151 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 32 of 58 15 February 2012 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
That's one of those things that I would describe as: "It's true, up to a point." When the version of your native language that you "already know" is so far from the standard that it prevents you from getting a good job (because your resume will be immediately ruled out based on the evident lack of communication skills), then some grammar instruction becomes important. In the US, that isn't terribly uncommon. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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