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French in Africa? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Witproduct Triglot Newbie Belgium Joined 5679 days ago 19 posts - 20 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, German Studies: French | Message 26 of 32 30 June 2011 at 11:48pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
On another forum I 'know' one Acadian woman who used to tell stories about how older people had to be careful not to speak French in public or they'd be harassed or even beaten. Nowadays it's not to bad anymore, but the antipathy toward Francophones still exists over there (for instance, they complain about how Franchophones 'butcher' the English language, while not speaking one word of French themselves, such things). By the way, French-speaking Canadians are very friendly people also toward Dutch- speaking people. I like them. Quebec is reputed to be quite nationalist, even more than Flanders is, but they're not intolerant, not even in the slightest. Flanders actually isn't really nationalist in the emotional way, but only in a political way. People also vote nationalists because they don't trust other Flemish parties (there's a lot of clientelism in our political culture). Not being nationalist in Flanders often means not loving your own culture... Personally I'm not fond of Flanders though, nor of Belgium. I respect people who want to make it a respectable country (and I commend them to succeed), but I've got sick of this place. I've always considered myself Dutch anyway. Flemish used to consider themselves Dutch centuries ago also and I regret they don't do so anymore since centuries. Still, it makes me still prefer a healthy political culture in Belgium above anything else. You can be culturally Dutch, but still be loyal to Belgium or Flanders. You don't have to be anti. I used to be like this before I knew about history and before I decided the 'good ones' lost in 1585 and 1830. ;) Of course, it's narrow-minded, but I acknowledge this. There is no good and bad here. I still like people I like, be they Walloon, Flemish or Dutch. Still, despite all of this I don't support the reunification of Flanders with the Netherlands. I think it would be impossible to do, unless we'd live in revolutionary times. Culturally we are separated for more than 425 years (the 15-year period was too insignificant and was only felt for the elites). I also hold no grudge against Walloons who are grateful for the fact they don't belong to the Netherlands. If for instance the Polish Revolt didn't happen in 1830, the Russians would support the Dutch and the French couldn't interfere and the British would either support the Dutch or ignore it. I think in that scenario Wallonia would want to be in-depended. They're Latin of culture, they're Catholic and they would've been put in a 'Frisian role'. I am currently reading about a Dutch teacher in Liège by the name of Johannes Kinker. He was practically sent there to increase the influence of Dutch to the intelligentsa there as some kind of missionary. ;) One of his poems:
He was, however, popular and kept contact with many of his students even after he left Belgium for good after the Revolution. Edited by Witproduct on 01 July 2011 at 12:35am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Witproduct Triglot Newbie Belgium Joined 5679 days ago 19 posts - 20 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, German Studies: French | Message 27 of 32 01 July 2011 at 12:46am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Funny detail. Slovak and Czech are mutually intelligible. In fact, they even tried to make a Czechoslovak language and it was even the official language to be used by the authorities, yet in practice they used more Czech. Mutual or not, even within dialect people have tribalist or nationalist tendencies. Today there are still many Czech who yearn for Czechoslovakia and regret the dissolution of the country (talked to one once). Culturally Czechs are more urban and Slovaks more rural. Czech Republic and Slovakia are two friendly nations toward one another, and Czech Republic is seen as the bigger brother of the two (this is why Slovaks often complain about 'arrogant Czech' ;)). Also, Slovaks read Czech literature and follow Czech culture today. Czech are more ignorant about Slovak culture or rather indifferent, still, not long ago there used to be an alarming article in some newspaper that the Czech youth didn't understand Slovak well anymore. Of course it's - as always - overly dramatized and blown out of proportion. Czech and Slovaks when exposed to one another understand each other fluently, it just take practice, but they don't have to learn a new language. This also goes for the younger generation of both countries. Edited by Witproduct on 01 July 2011 at 12:47am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Saim Pentaglot Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5083 days ago 124 posts - 215 votes  Speaks: Serbo-Croatian, English*, Catalan, Spanish, Polish Studies: Dutch, Portuguese, Italian, Occitan, Punjabi, Urdu, Arabic (Maghribi), French, Modern Hebrew, Ukrainian, Slovenian | Message 28 of 32 02 July 2011 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I don't like how this debate is being presented as a dichotomy. Why can't 50% of school hours go to education through the medium of the native language and 50% through the lingua franca? Why can't there be an officially sanctioned indigenous lingua franca and also governmental respect for the other languages of the country? People have a right to be educated in their own language, and I think dozens of languages in Africa have the potential of development to the point of having the same sort of standing and media output as medium-sized and smaller European languages.
Anyway, why should French be maintained due to reasons of "competitiveness"? Wouldn't it be more competitive to use English as the lingua franca, as that's the global one? Edited by Saim on 02 July 2011 at 12:35pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| ewomahony Diglot Groupie England Joined 5582 days ago 91 posts - 115 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Italian, French, Afrikaans | Message 29 of 32 02 July 2011 at 3:39pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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French itself is creeping into young British culture here in London. The African community has obviously brought with it its culture and it is quite common for African music to feature at our parties. Despite the fact that the majority of party-goers can't actually speak much French you'll find African French music is very popular. This would be one of my favourites:
Premier Gaou - Magic System (Côte d'Ivoire) 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Aquila123 Tetraglot Senior Member Norway mydeltapi.com Joined 5306 days ago 201 posts - 262 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Italian, Spanish Studies: Finnish, Russian | Message 30 of 32 02 July 2011 at 4:12pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I had to listen to a few Korean lessons on youtube. The phonetics is a challenge, indeed, because no vowel or consonant is excatly like any English one, and they tend to minimize the articulation of the vowels by holding the mouth more closed than an English speaker.
And they do not have any ususal r or l sounds, but something that sounds like a rolled lateral. But it does not beat Danish in having a very difficultly interpretable phonetics, and Norewgion in gluing the words together. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Saim Pentaglot Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5083 days ago 124 posts - 215 votes Speaks: Serbo-Croatian, English*, Catalan, Spanish, Polish Studies: Dutch, Portuguese, Italian, Occitan, Punjabi, Urdu, Arabic (Maghribi), French, Modern Hebrew, Ukrainian, Slovenian | Message 31 of 32 04 July 2011 at 11:00am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I think you posted in the wrong thread :P 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Muffy Bilingual Diglot Newbie France diylanguage.wordpres Joined 4753 days ago 3 posts - 6 votes Speaks: French*, English* Studies: Mandarin | Message 32 of 32 27 November 2011 at 4:57pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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What is French's status in Francophone Africa?
What do you predict about French's future status in French Africa? French is the language spoken by African countries that were colonised by the French or Belgians. IMHO, they are still colonised by the French. Example: ECOWAS has had numerous discussions with its West African members about implementing the ECO currency, the single currency for West Africa. But isn't it odd that all representatives of African states are present and a French representative is always a part of these discussions and always against this project. Last time I checked France was not a part of West Africa, but they do own (print, devalue and so on) the West African Franc and the Central African Franc (CFA). So French's future status in Africa as a whole DEPENDS on the NON-francophone Africans learning French as a second language to exchange with their brothers and sisters. Why? Simply because they are the ones learning French, they are the one's with the growing population rate, they are the ones with the increase in purchasing power and so on. I think we can get away with learning Wolof (to communicate with the Senegalese/Gambians), Hausa/Bambara (to communicate with the people of Niger, Senegal and Mali), Yoruba (to communicate with Benin, Cameroun), Kiswahili (to communicate with East Africa), Lingala (to communicate with Zaire and Congo) and Morrocan/Algerian Arabic (to get by in north Africa). By necessity many Francophone Africans that are involved in some form of trade speak some form of English or/and an African lingua franca. Changing things requires effort... and seeing as we are so 'tribalistic' and seeing as a lot of us are still suffering from the aftermath of civil war, seeing as our elites are somewhat selfish and encouraged to remain selfish... French is here to stay. So to answer your question: French will remain the language of instruction, the language of the elite, the language of diplomacy. Many anglophone Africans will try learning it, but many will give up. Those that reach a suitable level or are from French speaking nations will attempt to travel, study or work in Europe (France/Belgian) and their dreams will be dashed at the embassy. The policy is simple "we do not want any more Africans in the Schengen area unless you have the time, money, or know someone who knows someone and so on..." As a result my Congolese cousins study in Tunisia and Morrocco. Whichever way you look at it, unless francophone African countries follow Rwanda's example by replacing all French teaching material with English ones or another language and in the near future erasing their linguistic ties with the French, French will continue to be the language of formal education. But just because they went to French school does not mean that they speak it or are natives, all it means is that they are literate. bisous 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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