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Not having to do something in German | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| tpark Tetraglot Pro Member Canada Joined 7050 days ago 118 posts - 127 votes  Speaks: English*, German, Dutch, French Personal Language Map | Message 1 of 16 12 November 2011 at 7:58am | IP Logged | ||
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Hi,
In the MT Advanced German course, Michel corrects one of his students when he says "Sie müssen nicht es jetzt toen" for "You don't have to do it now". This is in the second lesson on disk 2. In the workbook for Themen 1 on page 59, they use "Du musst nicht einkaufen gehen" for "You don't have to go shopping." Here they state that nicht müssen means not to have to. It does not mean must not. I would like to know what the correct usage for the negative sense of müssen is. Thanks, --Ted 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Doitsujin Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5324 days ago 1256 posts - 2363 votes Speaks: German*, English | Message 2 of 16 12 November 2011 at 8:36am | IP Logged | ||
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I understand that you're a bit confused. I was, too, when I learned English and found out that "you must not" is not the exact opposite of "you must."
have to, must = müssen don't have to = nicht müssen but: must not = nicht dürfen (düfen = be allowed to) Or, if you want to put it the other way around, German has a special modal verb for "must not." Edited by Doitsujin on 12 November 2011 at 10:12am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6707 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 16 12 November 2011 at 8:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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Or "Sie brauchen es nicht jetzt zu tun" (not 'toen')
However "Sie müssen nicht es jetzt toen" is also wrong - it should at least be "Sie müssen es nicht jetzt tun" (aber vielleicht später) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Kyle Corrie Senior Member United States Joined 4833 days ago 175 posts - 464 votes | Message 4 of 16 12 November 2011 at 9:40pm | IP Logged | ||
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You may want to review the course. Michel Thomas actually explains how and what to say in
the recording. If my memory serves me, he asks the woman how she would alternatively say, "You don't have to do it." and she tells him, "You need not do it." and then he goes on to give the 'brauchen' example Iversen listed for you and says how important it is for someone to be familiar with their own language before embarking on another. Edited by Kyle Corrie on 12 November 2011 at 9:42pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tpark Tetraglot Pro Member Canada Joined 7050 days ago 118 posts - 127 votes Speaks: English*, German, Dutch, French Personal Language Map | Message 5 of 16 13 November 2011 at 12:15am | IP Logged | ||
Thanks for the information - I had heard what was on the tape correctly but of course I should have checked my spelling :(. I appreciate your help - I'm a bit further along in my quest to learn German! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tpark Tetraglot Pro Member Canada Joined 7050 days ago 118 posts - 127 votes Speaks: English*, German, Dutch, French Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 16 13 November 2011 at 12:49am | IP Logged | ||
The conflict in my mind was that Michel Thomas had said that "müssen nicht" wasn't equivalent to "don't have to". If you say to someone "You don't have to do that" the implication is that you are not obligated to do something - you may still do it if you really want to, but it isn't forbidden. The passage in the Themen workbook says that müssen nicht means "not to have to" which to me says that müssen nich isn't a prohibition - for prohibition dürfen nicht would be appropriate. If one said "Sie müssen es nicht tun" my interpretation from Michel Thomas was that it meant "You must not do it" but from Themen I got "You don't have to do it". What I am trying to figure out is if I'm interpreting something incorrectly or if there is an mistake in how MT or Themen uses müssen. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Doitsujin Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5324 days ago 1256 posts - 2363 votes Speaks: German*, English | Message 7 of 16 13 November 2011 at 12:58am | IP Logged | ||
No, "Sie müssen es nicht tun" = "You don't have to do it" "You must not do it" = "Sie dürfen es nicht tun" See linguee.de for some real life parallel German English sentences. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6913 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 8 of 16 13 November 2011 at 1:11am | IP Logged | ||
Either MT is wrong or you're misinterpreting him, because the way I remember it (and all my sources confirm this), "nicht müssen" (don't have to...) is the negative of "müssen" (have to/must). müssen/dürfen Auxiliary verbs Edited by jeff_lindqvist on 13 November 2011 at 1:12am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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