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Quebec as a Language Learning Destination | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| NACIREMA Diglot Newbie United States Joined 4824 days ago 17 posts - 32 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish | Message 1 of 46 18 September 2011 at 7:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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I am wondering if Quebec would be considered a good destination for those interested in studying French abroad. I know that the traditional choice is of course France, but Quebec is much closer and for some reason the thought of a French speaking society existing right here in North America fascinates me. (After all, I learned a lot of my Spanish in Mexico and have yet to even visit Spain).
I have couple of questions regarding the French language in Quebec: 1. Is the French spoken in Quebec markedly different than that spoken in France and/or other Francophone countries? I certainly expect some national differences to exist as they always do, such as the differences between the various English and Spanish speaking countries. However, if one learns French in Quebec will they have difficulty communicating with people from other Francophone countries? 2. Is Quebec very Anglicized? I think that if I were to go to Quebec I would go to Quebec City rather than to Montreal so as to be more immersed into the language and culture. Are the culture and language that city very preserved, so as to conserve the authenticity of the cross-cultural experience? 3. What is the general tendency in the Quebecois' attitude toward foreign visitors and language learners? I realize that this of course varies from person to person on an individual basis, but sometimes one can identify a tendency in a particular culture. For example, while each Latin American is different, in my experience the cultural tendency is for Latin Americans to often be quite patient and understanding, if not appreciative, with those from other countries who make a sincere effort to communicate with them in Spanish. This is one of the most endearing aspects of their culture, in my view. You really don't have to speak perfectly or worry about every mistake or mispronunciation. They give you credit for making the effort to speak, and that goes a long, long way in motivating you to keep trying to learn the language. I suppose I am not entirely convinced that this is as true of Francophone cultures, and we all know of the stereotypes that abound regarding France. (I am not sure if we Americans are always as patient as we should be with ESL learners, either, just for the record). What is the common reaction of Quebecois toward people who make sincere, albeit perhaps faltering, attempts to speak to them in French? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| H.Computatralis Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 6304 days ago 130 posts - 210 votes  Speaks: Polish*, French, English Studies: German, Spanish, Latin | Message 2 of 46 18 September 2011 at 11:13pm | IP Logged | ||
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1. The differences are mostly in the colloquial spoken language and of course the pronunciation. IMO the difference is slightly greater than the difference between colloquial American English and colloquial British English. That being said, just as in English, the written and more formal language is very nearly the same so if you learn to speak it properly you should have no problem getting around in any French-speaking country.
2. Actually, France is more Anglicized than Quebec. Since the 1960s Quebec has made great efforts to preserve its language so much that you even have bilingual stop sings and the like. Quebecers more frequently use French alternatives when the French would just use the English word (e.g "fin de semaine" instead of "weekend"). Your choice of Quebec rather than Montreal is a good one too. Montreal is very bilingual and it's quite easy to get around without speaking French. In Quebec city or anywhere north of the St-Lawrence river most people hardly speak any English at all and you'll find quite a few monolinguals. 3. The French arrogance is a cliché. It's mostly Paris arrogance. I think Quebecers are generally quite tolerant as long as you speak French to them but if you try to speak English some of them might not like you very much. It's a question of historical rivalries and you better just stay out of it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| microsnout TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member Canada microsnout.wordpress Joined 5471 days ago 277 posts - 553 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 3 of 46 19 September 2011 at 12:01am | IP Logged | ||
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I would say it is without a doubt a good destination and much less expensive too. I spent all of last winter in Montreal and this fall I will try a new immersion program in Quebec City that is offering the program at 50% off this fall.
There is as you say a lot more English spoken in Montreal but there are also very francophone areas of the city where English is as rare as in Quebec City. There are also some advantages to Montreal as well, like if you seek a language partner and search conversationexchange.com you will find about 380 listings in Montreal and just 7 in Quebec city. It seems that since English is more important in Montreal, there are more francophones there who wish to improve their English than in Quebec. Oh and if you want to include 'les Français' as language partners, you will have no problem since the majority of those 380 people are from France. You will not have difficulty conversing with people elsewhere either. While in Montreal I met francophones from France, Belgium, Africa and Switzerland and none of them had any trouble in Montreal after a few days or a couple weeks adjustment (that may not apply in some rural regions however). I think however that the adjustment is more difficult for a student of the language than a native francophone - if you have been speaking and listening to the language all your life, you will hear the differences much more readily and it will just sound like an accent. As for the attitude to learners, I have little experience in Paris but I found people in Montpellier very helpful. Benny Lewis (Irishpolyglot) described on his blog that he found people in Montreal much more helpful than in Paris but that is just one opinion. Also, if you plan to attend a school, there is another reason what you learn will serve you anywhere in the world - they generally only teach standard French in these classes. If you really want to learn Québécois French (and I did) then you need either private lessons or a good language partner. The schools there even brag about this in their marketing, claiming they will prepare you to go to the Alliance Française in Paris and write an exam. Edited by microsnout on 19 September 2011 at 12:33am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5381 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 4 of 46 19 September 2011 at 3:40pm | IP Logged | ||
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I would agree that the difference between Québec and France French is slightly greater than that between American and British English. However, it's really not that simple. The difference between Standard American and Standard British may be mininal, but take a Texan and put him in Manchester and that's not quite the same story. In general, most educated Québécois can speak both Québécois and Standard French dialects, and many can opt for a more standard French to make sure foreigners understand.
I also agree that Montréal may not be the best destination to learn French; however, Montréal is a great city and there are plenty of opportunities to live in French only if one chooses too. And that's the real question -- will you make that effort, or do you need to be forced? Since many English speakers in Montréal choose to live in English only, it would be easy to fall into that pattern if you start making English speaking friends. Québec City is a beautiful city, but by no means is it the only other choice. There are many cities in between where virtually no one speaks English, but I don't know anything about French as a Second Language programmes though. When I met my wife in Montréal, she'd just moved from Western Canada and didn't know any French. She just hung out with her English friends, none of whom had any interest in French. But as soon as we met, she realized that her friends had a sort of unhealthy aversion towards French and decided she had to learn it. And in the course of a year, she became fluent, and insisted on speaking French at any opportunity, even with English speaking customers (which infuriated most of them and made her want to do it even more ;) and made French speaking friends. In her experience, some Francophones can dislike Anglophones, but the second they see how interested and motivated you are in learning French, they take you as one of theirs and insist on helping you and teaching you (slang, etc.). Learning a language is not something that you will do in one summer -- although I have no idea how long you intend to stay in Québec. But my point is that if you have an opportunity to go and it's closer and cheaper, then go for it! If it doesn't work out, you can always choose to go to France instead later on. Although I see no reason why that should be the case. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| LorenzoGuapo Triglot Groupie United States Joined 6444 days ago 79 posts - 94 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: French | Message 5 of 46 19 September 2011 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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I just came back from a vacation in Montreal and here are my answers to your questions.
1.Yes, the dialects are different from France however there is a French TV station offered on local tv TV5, so if you choose to watch that you can learn a lot from the French point of view while listening to the French accent. 2.I don't think it is Anglicized, however beware in Montreal you will be greeted in French but if you choose to switch to English, the majority of people will speak to you in English. 3.There are actually a good amount of visible minorities in the Montreal area and in television, so I would have to say the attitude is open toward foreign visitors and language learners. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| caracao Triglot Groupie France Joined 5120 days ago 53 posts - 84 votes Speaks: French*, English, Italian Studies: German | Message 6 of 46 19 September 2011 at 8:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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Yes it's a good choice, beware of Montréal as already said. You can live and work in Montréal without speaking French.
It's the same language, just different vocabulary on colloquial level, and pronunciation. But it's French, and you'll be taught standard French. French Canadian is more anglicized than European. Although the European French doesn't bother to translate all the borrowed English words (IT vocabulary for example), French canadian in syntax, idioms and grammar is very close to English. They even use English words in the middle of a sentence. It's the same language anyway, don't worry. Same spelling, same grammar, same syntax. You'll just learn differents words that wouldn't be understood sometimes in France. (to be honest, mostly slang, coloquial), Formal French is one language, in France and Québec. But it's mostly a different accent. Edited by caracao on 19 September 2011 at 8:54pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5381 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 7 of 46 19 September 2011 at 9:01pm | IP Logged | ||
I doubt we'll settle that issue, but if that's the case, then it's only marginally so. The French use a lot of English words because it's cool, and because they have nothing to fear. In Québec, while we do use some English words in every day language, we strictly avoid them in more formal situations. How much English we use also depends a lot on the person's knowledge of English. Sure, we'll say things like "j'ai acheté un truck", "c'est f**ké", "j'ai trippé", etc., but the French will say "je fais du shopping", "les pipeules", "la cool attitude", "du chewing gum", etc. On the other hand, we have French words for things the French use an English word for, such as traversier (ferry-boat), magasinage (shopping), etc. All in all, all varieties of French have some influence from English (and considering the influence English had from French, it's pretty insignificant), but even though Québec is surrounded by English, it's done a pretty good job of keeping a lot of English at bay. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Homogenik Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4824 days ago 314 posts - 407 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Polish, Mandarin | Message 8 of 46 19 September 2011 at 9:38pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think Quebec would be a good idea, the university campus is very nice and spacious. But there are other possibilities, for instance Sherbrooke where you can also study (http://www.usherbrooke.ca/accueil/english/language-school/) . The city is slightly smaller than Quebec, and it's quite nice too.
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