|
 |
Italian R | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Jackal11 Groupie United States Joined 5662 days ago 41 posts - 45 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Latin | Message 1 of 9 30 September 2011 at 10:42pm | IP Logged |
|
Does anyone here know if the Italian alveolar trill is apical or laminal?
1 person has voted this message useful | |
| getreallanguage Diglot Senior Member Argentina youtube.com/getreall Joined 5471 days ago 240 posts - 371 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Italian, Dutch | Message 2 of 9 01 October 2011 at 6:14pm | IP Logged |
|
It's apical, meaning that it is articulated with the tip of the tongue (against the hard palate). I don't even know if there is such a thing as a trilled laminal 'r' sound in any world language. Apical sounds are articulated with the tip of the tongue, laminal sounds are articulated with the blade (middle) of the tongue. This distinction has to do with what part of the tongue is touching the place of articulation. For example, the 't' sound in "time" is an apical alveolar sound since it's articulated with the tip of the tongue against the alveolar ridge (that bump on the hard palate right behind the gumline). The 's' sound in "sigh" is a laminal alveolar sound since it's articulated with the blade of the tongue against the alveolar ridge.
Dorsal sounds are articulated with the back of the tongue - for example, the 'c' sound in "car" is a dorsal velar sound, since it's articulated with the back of the tongue against the velum (the area of the soft palate in front of the uvula). By the way, I believe this varies with dialect, but Italian has both an alveolar trill (the 'rr' sound in "arrabiato") and an alveolar tap (the 'r' sound in "arancia" and "Roma"). However, the dialect of Rome pronounces "arrabiato" with the 'r' sound in "arancia" and some southern dialects pronounce "Roma" with the 'rr' sound of "arrabiato". Edited by getreallanguage on 01 October 2011 at 6:17pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5056 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 3 of 9 01 October 2011 at 6:46pm | IP Logged |
|
I've heard a soft trill in Russian songs. So, there can be laminal alveolar trill. Edited by Марк on 01 October 2011 at 8:36pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Emme Triglot Senior Member Italy Joined 5347 days ago 980 posts - 1594 votes Speaks: Italian*, English, German Studies: Russian, Swedish, French | Message 4 of 9 01 October 2011 at 8:14pm | IP Logged |
|
As getreallanguage rightly said, the Italian /r/ is an alveolar trill. Its IPA symbol is [r].
It just happens that we naturally tend to say an alveolar flap (IPA symbol [ɾ]) when we have to pronounce /r/ in an intervocalic position. The [ɾ] sound is easier to pronounce between vowels, whereas at the beginning of a word we usually use [r]. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Jackal11 Groupie United States Joined 5662 days ago 41 posts - 45 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Latin | Message 5 of 9 01 October 2011 at 10:35pm | IP Logged |
|
It's the strangest thing; I've been working on this sound for years now and I've finally reached the point where I can get the tip of my tongue to vibrate but the only sound I get coming out is this weird humming noise, not at all like the sharp trill that I hear from native speakers. I honestly don't know what to try anymore.
1 person has voted this message useful | |
| KimG Diglot Groupie Norway Joined 4977 days ago 88 posts - 104 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English Studies: Portuguese, Swahili | Message 6 of 9 02 October 2011 at 12:53pm | IP Logged |
|
Hm, best way I can describe what I do when pronouncing a trill, is I flap the tongue against the top of my mouth, believe the airstream in the mouth makes it partly possible, sort of breathing out, and letting the tongue 'flap" back and forth in the air going out, like a flag in the wind. You push it up, and it goes down.
Do an R like flap, cover the airstream with your tongue doing it, breath out, and let it flap. It will flap if you do it right, since othervise you'd not be able to exhale air. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Kanishka Triglot Newbie Italy Joined 4928 days ago 15 posts - 32 votes Speaks: Italian*, English, French Studies: Persian, Pashto, Dari | Message 7 of 9 02 October 2011 at 1:38pm | IP Logged |
|
It's not an easy sound; in fact, I pronounce it as an uvular sound, a bit like in French,
even if I am a native Italian (and it sounds a bit sexier, people say) ;) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Jackal11 Groupie United States Joined 5662 days ago 41 posts - 45 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Latin | Message 8 of 9 04 October 2011 at 9:33pm | IP Logged |
|
Thanks guys; maybe you can help me out with another question. How taut is the tongue supposed to be when making this sound? Is it very loose or is it pressed hard against the alveolar ridge? Different sources tell me different things.
1 person has voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
