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Russian pronunciation of шь | ||
Tags: Pronunciation | Russian | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| zecchino1991 Senior Member United States facebook.com/amyybur Joined 5258 days ago 778 posts - 885 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, Modern Hebrew, Russian, Arabic (Written), Romanian, Icelandic, Georgian | Message 1 of 8 05 October 2011 at 10:01pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I just started to learn Russian and I was wondering, if ш is /ʂ/ then is шь really
pronounced /ʂʲ/? It just doesn't seem possible somehow, but I could be completely wrong. So is шь really a soft ш or something else? Edited by zecchino1991 on 05 October 2011 at 10:02pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| giok Newbie Poland Joined 5182 days ago 17 posts - 22 votes Speaks: Italian* | Message 2 of 8 05 October 2011 at 11:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
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It's pronounced /ʂ/ despite the spelling. There is no thing as a /ʂʲ/ sound, in Russian at least.
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| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5056 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 3 of 8 06 October 2011 at 9:24am | IP Logged | |||||
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Soft ш is щ.
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| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5599 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 4 of 8 06 October 2011 at 1:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
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If I understand it correctly, these soft signs after sibilants as in дочь or говоришь are mere orthographical vestiges. One could write as well *доч or *говориш without changing the pronunciation.
PS. The soft sign in дочь shows you its female gender, so it is grammatically useful. Edited by Cabaire on 06 October 2011 at 1:17pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5056 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 5 of 8 06 October 2011 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | |||||
You are right. I don't see big usefulness in it. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| zecchino1991 Senior Member United States facebook.com/amyybur Joined 5258 days ago 778 posts - 885 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, Modern Hebrew, Russian, Arabic (Written), Romanian, Icelandic, Georgian | Message 6 of 8 08 October 2011 at 12:16am | IP Logged | |||||
I thought about that. Actually that's kind of what made me wonder. But based on what Cabaire said I don't think шь=щ...Plus щ is geminated.
Yeah it makes since that the soft sign on ч wouldn't do anything because ч is already soft. It's just that darn ш that had me confused haha. But you answered my question. Thank you! By the way, you said they are orthographical vestiges, so do you by any chance know what purpose they used to serve? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5056 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 7 of 8 08 October 2011 at 9:42am | IP Logged | |||||
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In Old Russian all the sibilants and ts were soft. Soft sign was written after soft
consonants and hard sign was written after hard consonants at the end of words. Then ш, ж (14 cent.) and then ц (16 cent) became hard, but soft sign was still written. Then it was replaced in many cases by hard sign, but not everywhere. Soft sign was kept in Feminin words, in verbs and adverbs. After the revolution hard signs at the end of words were eliminated. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| zecchino1991 Senior Member United States facebook.com/amyybur Joined 5258 days ago 778 posts - 885 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, Modern Hebrew, Russian, Arabic (Written), Romanian, Icelandic, Georgian | Message 8 of 8 09 October 2011 at 4:25am | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks! Very interesting. :)
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