Mistakes in Michel Thomas courses (Language Programs, Books & Tapes) Language Learning Forum

Mistakes in Michel Thomas courses
Tags: Error \| Michel Thomas \| Pronunciation
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Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes

52 messages over 7 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Random review
Diglot
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Message 49 of 52

17 July 2011 at 2:34pm | IP Logged

unzum wrote:

Quote:

The tone explanations in the first 6 tracks were adequate, although I had been
spoiled a bit by the extremely thorough FSI pronunciation module. However, beyond the
simple explanations for all four tones, there was hardly any explanation on the tones
in combination, for example, when the 3rd tone is followed by a 1st, 2nd, 4th or
neutral tone it is only pronounced as a half 3rd tone (only goes down, doesn't come
up).

There is an explanation of when bu4 is followed by another 4th tone e.g. bu4 shi4, the
bu4 changes to the 2nd tone, so, bu2 shi4; but for some reason the teacher never
explains the tone change when a 3rd tone is followed by another 3rd tone! (FYI the
first 3rd tone changes to a 2nd tone, i.e. wo2 hao3) This leads to the bizzare
situation when the American teacher is telling you to say two 3rd tones but the Chinese
teacher is saying 2nd tone, 3rd tone. This is only going to confuse the student,
especially if they haven't studied Chinese before, and perhaps they won't even realise
and will carry on pronouncing it incorrectly. The point is, this is a very basic rule
that students should be taught AS SOON AS they encounter it.

There is another mistake in CD 2, track 12 when the American teacher says that xiang3
is pronounced like xian2. Only looking at the spelling this would appear to be correct
but in fact when the sound 'ia' is followed by 'n' it is pronounced differently, more
like 'ee-eh' and 'ia' followed by 'ng' is pronunced more like 'ee-ah'. So another
pronunciation explanation that will at best confuse the student and at worst instill
bad habits.

In the end the main reason why I stopped using this course was the pace. It's so slow
and really boring ... I struggled to stay awake quite often.

I would be interested in hearing what opinion those of you who used this course have.

I'm sad to hear about the mistakes, but as you say there are much more serious
problems. The
fact is that it is simply not an MT course, I found the Foundation Course OK, but note
I haven't forced myself to do the next 2 levels yet, even though I really want to learn
Mandarin, and soon!!!!! That says it all, frankly! Contrast that with Italian, which
was done by MT himself (actually his worst for mistakes IMO) where I flew through both
levels out of sheer interest even though it'll be years before I get round to really
learning Italian. Another example is Dutch (IMHO the only post MT course which deserves
the name), I actually don't plan on learning Dutch, I don't think I'll ever have time,
but just did the whole thing out of sheer curiosity about how the language is put
together (and what a damn shame that there will never be a 3rd level!). I think that if
there *are* mistakes in any of the "new" courses then that is much more serious because
(other than Dutch) they are not designed as well, and you as a learner quickly realize
this and have to make up for it by going through each CD several times, trying to
remember, etc. That way mistakes get learned. Another point specific to the errors you
mention is that these tones do get practised consistently through the course, so you
essentially are practising mistakes; this is in total contrast to MT's mistakes. In the
light of this I might never bother with the next two levels of Mandarin, and just slog
through the FSI and DLI courses.

Actually it has been pointed out on this Forum that the new courses are not designed as
well DELIBERATELY! Hodder took a deliberate decision to edit out many of the students'
mistakes and their subsequent corrections. Although it's fair to say that nobody has
yet come forward that really understands totally what MT's method really was about, I
almost get the impression that Hodder weren't even really trying. There are definitely
people on this forum who would have done a better job.

Edit: I think it may have actually been on the old MT forum where this got pointed out,
not that Hodder listened.

Edited by Random review on 17 July 2011 at 2:42pm
1 person has voted this message useful

Cainntear
Pentaglot
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Message 50 of 52

18 July 2011 at 3:21pm | IP Logged

Random review wrote:

Actually it has been pointed out on this Forum that the new courses are not designed as
well DELIBERATELY! Hodder took a deliberate decision to edit out many of the students'
mistakes and their subsequent corrections.
...
Edit: I think it may have actually been on the old MT forum where this got pointed out,
not that Hodder listened.

Ginny said on the old forum that it happened. She was trying to point out how good Thomas was at teaching, and seemed oblivious to the fact that the errors were evidence that the new teachers were teaching badly. I've mentioned it several times here.
2 persons have voted this message useful

unzum
Diglot
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United Kingdom
soyouwanttolearnalan
Joined 6913 days ago
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Speaks: English*, Japanese
Studies: Mandarin

Message 51 of 52

19 July 2011 at 10:18pm | IP Logged

Random review wrote:

Yes, I think it says a lot about the course that it's so hard to force yourself through it. I've tried to listen to the Mandarin course several times, having bought the foundation & advanced levels but even the thought of not wasting my money by finishing it hasn't been enough to make me finish it.

In contrast, I raced through MT French in about 2 days because it was so interesting and enjoyable.

I think that the old MT courses (and some of the new ones) combine both fun and high educational value. Stuff like FSI lacks fun but it has a lot of educational value.
But unfortunately I found MT Mandarin lacking in both fun and educational value (at least as far as time investment is concerned).
2 persons have voted this message useful

Random review
Diglot
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 5782 days ago
781 posts - 1310 votes

Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin, Yiddish, German

Message 52 of 52

19 July 2011 at 10:47pm | IP Logged

unzum wrote:

Yes, I think it says a lot about the course that it's so hard to force yourself through
it. I've tried to listen to the Mandarin course several times, having bought the
foundation & advanced levels but even the thought of not wasting my money by finishing
it hasn't been enough to make me finish it.

In contrast, I raced through MT French in about 2 days because it was so interesting
and enjoyable.

I think that the old MT courses (and some of the new ones) combine both fun and high
educational value. Stuff like FSI lacks fun but it has a lot of educational value.
But unfortunately I found MT Mandarin lacking in both fun and educational value (at
least as far as time investment is concerned).

Totally agreed! I think we have exactly the same view on every single point you made in
this post (I think that might be a first for me on this forum!).

1 person has voted this message useful

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