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TAC 2011 Team ع - Préposition [AR - RU] | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| robsolete Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5376 days ago 191 posts - 428 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Russian, Arabic (Written), Mandarin | Message 25 of 55 06 January 2011 at 1:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Oh, of course. It was really something of a tongue-in-cheek comment, just because I like
how you've decided to make your log semi-instructional. Since you've put much more time into Arabic and Russian than I have, it offers a great road map for what's to come. Thanks so much for the offers, and good luck. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Quabazaa Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 5600 days ago 414 posts - 543 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, German, French Studies: Japanese, Korean, Maori, Scottish Gaelic, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written) | Message 26 of 55 06 January 2011 at 3:50pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Wow great summaries, it's very interesting to read about the Al-Kitaab textbook, as I haven't studied with it. It's also helpful to see how someone else describes these things I am still trying to get my head around!
From my understanding in فريحة جميلة جدا you are correct that جميلة is the خبر Then with هذا الكتاب مشهر في كل العلم (if it is indeed al-kitaab) then هذا is the اسم اشارة of the مبتدة and isn't الكتاب the بدل? Aka the substitute? With مشهر the خبر I am still learning this myself, especially analysing sentences, so please correct me if I am wrong :) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Quabazaa Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 5600 days ago 414 posts - 543 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, German, French Studies: Japanese, Korean, Maori, Scottish Gaelic, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written) | Message 27 of 55 06 January 2011 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Oh by the way, I'm not sure if it will apply to you if you have an AZERTY keyboard but I'll type it out in case it does..
On my QWERTY I get diatrics and tanween like so: Fatha: Shift + Q Double fatha: Shift + W Damma: Shift + E Double Damma: Shift + R Kasra: Shift + A Double kasra: Shift + S Sukun: Shift + X Shadda: Shift + Tilde (to the left of the 1 key) Hope that helps! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Préposition Diglot Senior Member France aspectualpairs.wordp Joined 5105 days ago 186 posts - 283 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishC1 Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Swedish, Arabic (Levantine) | Message 28 of 55 06 January 2011 at 5:25pm | IP Logged | |||||
I wouldn't dare correcting anyone on their Arabic for mine is in a poor state! Regarding the خبر, if I am to believe what I was taught at Damascus U., the word (in most cases, I realise I forgot one point*) that directly follows the مبتدأ is the خبر, which means that in this case, الكيتاب would still be the خبر, and the نوع الخبر (type of خبر) is اسم. That said, I have never heard of the بدل before, and must admit I'm not sure what it is exactly, although there's probably a good chance you're right and I'm wrong! *The point I forgot the mention is about reversed جملة اسمية, for example "كيف حلك" where حلك is the مبتدأ (an اسم) and كيف is the خبر (and apparently an اسم يستفهام say my notes).
Thanks for the codes, however I have a vague suspicion you're using Windows, and I'm on a Mac :P. My laziness is partly due to my unability to remember where diacritics go (I seem to remember the shape of the word rather than how it sounds), and there are some like the fatHa underneath the alif, the alif maksura or the dagger and "sat" alif that I just have to copy paste, although I'm probably gonna make a small list and will open it every time I need to type in Arabic! Edited by Préposition on 06 January 2011 at 5:27pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Kinan Diglot Senior Member Syrian Arab Republic Joined 5557 days ago 234 posts - 279 votes Speaks: Arabic (Written)*, English Studies: Russian, Spanish | Message 29 of 55 06 January 2011 at 11:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Some corrections:
هذا كتاب مشهور في كل العالم انا في مدينة لندن 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Préposition Diglot Senior Member France aspectualpairs.wordp Joined 5105 days ago 186 posts - 283 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishC1 Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Swedish, Arabic (Levantine) | Message 30 of 55 06 January 2011 at 11:38pm | IP Logged | |||||
Thank you! I noticed you were from Syria, where do you live? I spent 4 months in Damascus from September to December, and visited to whole country as well :) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Préposition Diglot Senior Member France aspectualpairs.wordp Joined 5105 days ago 186 posts - 283 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishC1 Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Swedish, Arabic (Levantine) | Message 31 of 55 07 January 2011 at 1:50am | IP Logged | |||||
Archie Owl and the mighty books. Today's not been a very great day, and I had to run around and do various things, but I also got a bit lazy, so to make me feel better, I got a couple of films in foreign languages, and I will try to do a bit of grammar now!  I'm a bit behind my original plan, but I might rethink it all, because I focus too much on learning and not enough on using what I'm learning, which is detrimental and makes me feel like I'm not actually going anywhere.  Today, I finally got a film I had been wanting to see for ages! It was first mentionned in one of my lectures when we were studying St Petersburg and Soviet architecture under Brezhnev. Ирония Судбы or the Irony of Fate is about Zhenya, a bachelor who had plans to spend his NYE with his fiancée but will end up taking his brother's seat on a plane to Leningrad* after a drunken evening made them forgot who was meant to take the plane. I have not yet finished the first half, but I can tell you that the film is about his landing in Leningrad and thinking it's were he lives, as Soviet architecture and town planning was very restricted and the same everywhere. From the name of streets to the front door of his flat, everything is similar and the poor Zhenya doesn't see the difference… I don't understand everything, and the use of English subtitles helps me greatly recognising constructions and words I had forgotten. It's rather rewarding, and it's also great to discover Russian culture through a film so famous some cues are nowadays part of everyday speak! Regarding the *, I just wanted to explain to those who might be interested that St Petersburg, or Санкт Петербург, was founded by Peter the Great on swamps and that the construction of this gorgeous city, planned and designed by the best European architects, killed thousands of workers, and is the object of great myths. It saw its first name change during the First World War, because Petersbourg sounded too German. It was thus changed to Petrograd, before being changed to Leningrad after the revolution and losing its status of capital to Moscow. Finally, it got its original name back, and its inhabitants affectionately call it "Peter". It not named after its founder, but after the apostle, and I'm afraid that's all I can remember for now :P  Now for the boring bit! Today, I should have done the prepositional, comparative and superlatives, indefinite pronouns with particles, the conditional, and reflexive verbs. It hasn't happened yet, right now it's 11pm, and my motivation is weirdly increasing as my sleepiness decreases. So давай давай! I'm going to start with the prepositional, probably the first case you learn after the nominative. As you can guess from its name, it's only used with preposition, however, there is a small amount of names that will take a different ending after the prepositions в and на, both of them denoting a location. The other preposition, о (or об in front of a vowel) governs the prepositional case in the meaning about, concerning: об аэропорте (about the airport), в аэропорту (at the airport). Об Владимире (about Vladimir), but в Владимиру doesn't not work, nor exist. The endings and simple and are as follow: Adjectives: Masculine: ом, ем Neuter: ом, ем Feminine: ой ей Plural: ых, их Nouns: Masculine: е, и Neuter: е, и Feminine: е, и Plural: ах, ях Я живу в Петербурге (I live in St Petersburg), я изучаю во Франции (I study in France), моя подруга живет в красивой квартире (My girl friend lives in a beautiful flat). Next up are the indefinite pronouns with particles. A rather barbaric term for what really is quite simple to understand. The indefinite pronouns I'm talking about are кто, что, где, когда, какой and чей. the particles I'm talking about are -то, -нибудь (or -либо) and кое-. When you associate a pronoun with the particle -то, the sentence in which it's used tells of an indefinite object or person unknown only to the speaker (only indefinite in the sense that the speaker doesn't know it). This sounds a bit complicated presented that way, but it's not that difficult. Кто-то мне звонил (someone called me) means that a definite person called the speaker, but the speaker doesn't know who it is. Что-то в коробке (There is something in the box) means that the speaker doesn't know what it's the box. See? Easy-peasy! [Sorry, a bit of an off-topic, but I just closed Chrome because I hit the wrong keys in Russian, and thought I would have to re-write all that. I opened it again, and it was all there. Jeez I love technology! \o/] Anyway, back on topic, -нибудь is used in sentences where no-one knows anything, and it doesn't matter: дай мне что-нибудь почитать (give me something to read). -либо is mainly used in the literary language. And finally, кое- is a context opposite to the first one. The speaker knows a thing that others don't: я кое-что слышала об этом (I heard something about it). And now for more fun, let's attack the comparative and superlative. They're nice and I like them (I don't think I ever came across mean comp/sup, but you never know). So Russian has two ways of forming the comparative. One includes the use of более, and is used with long adjectives. Более is invariable, but the adjectives agrees with the noun it qualifies: более красивый дом (a more beautiful house). My Russian teacher (imagine a large Russian-style mama with an interesting sense of fashion and some special powers that, when you haven't done your "khhhomevorrrk" make you feel like you're 5 again and you just broke a vase. Seriously, she's awesomely epic.) doesn't really like to use it. She said the other way is better. I'm gonna trust her on that one, because the other one's cooler. Sooo, the other way is simply to add -ее to the stem, fantastic, isn't it? So "more beautiful" can also be красивее, and you save energy and maybe even ink and paper by not writing более. What's even better is that this -ее ending makes them invariable, and you know what that means? No case endings, woohoo! So you'd have something like цветы красивее (the flowers are more beautiful). And now you're gonna tell me to wait and that I'm not comparing anything… Yet! To make it "the flowers are more beautiful than my belly button", you can either use the construction "comparative + чем + nominative" (my favourite!) or the construction "comparative + genitive", but that's definitely not as nice, because the genitive sucks (especially the plural). Plus it only works if the first item for comparison is in the nominative (nominative 1 - genitive 0): With чем + nominative: Цветы красивее чем мой пуп. With the genitive: Цветы красивее моего пупа. Right, now I can drop the bomb. It's not really thaaat easy. Well it is, but there's still a bit of the iceberg you haven't seen yet. As a rule of thumb in Russian, you need at least an exception or two to a rule. Makes sense, otherwise it wouldn't be a very good rule, would it? So yeah, there are some one-word comparatives, but they're only a small family or three couples, and they're quite adorable, really: хороший (good) becomes лучший (better) плохой (bad) becomes худший (worse) старый (old) becomes старший (older) молодой (young) becomes младший (younger) большой (big) becomes больший (bigger) маленький (small) becomes меньший (smaller) Now for the big meanies to show up, well, there's a massive list exceeding half a page, therefore I will not grace you with their presence in my log. Maybe one day, in a set of flashcards. Basically, they were normal, boring little adjectives, but like X-Men, they suffer mutations when it comes to being a comparative, and they become, errr, somewhat shorter, which isn't actually that bad. Дешëвый (cheap) becomes дешевле (cheaper), дорогой (dear, expensive) becomes дороже (dearer, more expensive), близкий (near) becomes ближе (nearer), etc. And now for something completely different… The superlative! A thing of beauty, expressing all the simplicity yet all the power of the Russian language at the same time, it is formed by adding самый et puis c'est tout , na ! You need to know, however, that this lovely little word (nowhere near as annoying as более) has to agree in noun, gender, number and case with the adjective it precedes (basically if you can't remember how to decline it, you just copy the ending of the adjective, which is pretty cool). Мой пуп самый красивый (my belly button is the most beautiful) Мои пупы самые красивые (my belly buttons are the most beautiful) У меня нет самого красивого пупа (I don't have the most beautiful belly button) I was gonna leave it here for today, but I don't know many people who can resist the appeal of explaining the conditional to a bunch of language geniuses who probably think you're a bit retarded. The conditional is pretty simple too, so to put you in the right mood (harr harr), I'll start by telling you that in the conditional, there are two ingredients. A conditional clause (surprisingly) that would follow the construction "если бы + past tense of the verb" and a main clause following the construction "past tense of the verb + particle бы that precedes or follow the verb". One more thing before I leave you in an ocean of confuseness, there is a difference between if and whether in English, and it also exist in Russian. Если means if, and ли means whether. I'll come back to that point later. It's funny how when I look at my notes again, nothing makes sense anymore, but I'll try to untangle it at all for you. As you probably (should) know, there are real and unreal conditional situations. "If I had more time, I would study more languages" is perfectly real as it could happen. "If I had more money, I would clone Prof. Arguelles' brain and implant it in my head" isn't (or if you prefer more natural examples "If he had called, I would have told you"). I explained to you how it works for unreal conditionals, but real conditionals actually use the construction "если будет + present". Unreal: Если бы завтра была хорошая погода, мы поехали бы (or бы поехали) за город. (If the weather were nice tomorrow, we would go to the country) Real: Если завтра будет хорошая погода, мы поедем за город. (If the weather is nice tomorrow, we shall go to the country) As for ли, it can replace if by whether, and it follows the operative word (usually a verb) in the subordinate clause, so it would literally give something like "he asked she spoke whether Russian", and in Russian: "Он спросил, говорит ли она по-русски" (He asked if/whether she spoke Russian (or not)). And that's it for today, now I need to catch Archie Owl before he eats all the chocolate! 
Archie Owl in the chocolate box 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Kinan Diglot Senior Member Syrian Arab Republic Joined 5557 days ago 234 posts - 279 votes Speaks: Arabic (Written)*, English Studies: Russian, Spanish | Message 32 of 55 07 January 2011 at 9:10am | IP Logged | |||||
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I live in Tartous, I hate cities like Damascus and Aleppo, they are too big and crowd for me.
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