|
 |
TAC 2011- Team Ő - The Stephen | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| The Stephen Diglot Groupie United States Joined 5043 days ago 65 posts - 77 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Czech, Hungarian | Message 33 of 43 10 August 2011 at 7:43am | IP Logged | |||||
Hallo Euch alle,
Es ist schön zu wissen, dass diese Wörter, sogar in der Schweiz, noch eigentlich benutzt werden :) Aber mit "Mädel" meinte ich nicht dass es vulgär ist, sondern nur dass es mehr locker oder informell ist. Übrigens habe ich "slangier" dargestellt (aus "slang"); es ist kein echtes Wort ;) Aber vielleicht sollte ich darum vorsichtiger sein, in Anbetracht der Englishlernende, die wohl dieses Aufzeichnen lesen.
Danke! Viel leichter auswendig zu lernen als die andere. Doch ein wenig kryptisch... Eine Bezeichnung von den weicheren Lauten der ungarische Sprache, um die Liebe darzustellen, oder? Wahrscheinlich denke ich zuviel darüber nach... But anyway, English time! Did another couple of Assimil lessons. And they were packed with new words and structures. Tonight, in fact, I spent more than an hour on the lesson, and I'm still a bit shaky on it. Maybe I'll wait for the next revision to look at it again though, which will be on Thursday. Damn hard stuff... The Stephen 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| The Stephen Diglot Groupie United States Joined 5043 days ago 65 posts - 77 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Czech, Hungarian | Message 34 of 43 11 August 2011 at 9:49am | IP Logged | |||||
|
*Sigh*....
So, I just got done with another Assimil lesson. Tomorrow is a review day. But I'm not feeling I'm assimilating the material and it's really starting to bother me. I took a look at the first lesson again, sort of like I was starting the active wave. I did alright with translating the English side, but not perfect. Which is kind of pathetic for being the first lesson. I was screwing up the word order in three-word sentences :( So I have some thinking to do about how I'm going about all this. I have some options: 1) Memorize the lessons as I go through them. The pros are that I'll have to pay more attention to the material and go over it more often, and I could then review it in my head throughout the day. The cons are it would be tedious and hard to maintain (I would probably just forget the lesson after a couple of days). It seems like kind of a superficial way of doing things. 2) After doing a lesson, review an old one (starting from the beginning). Almost like starting the active phase, except not as "serious". I would listen to the dialog then try to write (or type) the Hungarian translation from the English. So that way I'm working on listening comprehension and actual translating (I know translating isn't ultimately feasible but you have to start somewhere). This one is looking like my best option. 3) Start on FSI Hungarian. My teammate Kisfröccs is quite advanced in all aspects of Hungarian (though she would probably deny that :)), so I read the first part of her log and saw she used this (at least for a bit). I actually did the first unit a couple of years ago (that's right, I burned out on Hungarian at least two separate times), and I still remember a lot of stuff from it. The cons are that I find the drills kind of stressful (though I could use the pause button) and the content dry and possibly old-fashioned. But I assume old-fashioned Hungarian is a lot better than no Hungarian! 4) Start an Anki deck. I actually have Anki on my computer already, but haven't used it in a long time. That's my main worry: keeping it up (I guess everything comes down to my discipline in the end). Also I could run into some problems 'harvesting' words to put on the cards. As I've lamented before, endings on verbs and nouns, and even adjectives, can make it difficult to identify the root word (for example, szó (word) -> szavak (words)), so I would have to rely on my own grasp of the rules to generalize the cards. That's obviously less than ideal. Of course I have many more options but these are the ones off the top of my head. I think they're all pretty realistic, and I don't necessarily have to choose just one of them. I have some thinking to do... Az István (at least I know how to say this much!) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Kisfroccs Bilingual Pentaglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 5400 days ago 388 posts - 549 votes Speaks: French*, German*, EnglishC1, Swiss-German, Hungarian Studies: Italian, Serbo-Croatian | Message 35 of 43 11 August 2011 at 10:23am | IP Logged | |||||
Ahah :) You have the merit to make me laugh ;). Yes, I would have denied it. I really liked FSI, but it takes a lot of patience. Normally, I would listen to the dialogue and repeat what they say. Then, listen again the whole dialogue without interruption and reading the grammar point. Everytime I did just two of the drills (the pronunciation and the first one), I couldn't do it all. Then, sometimes I maked a dialogue up (as you've seen on my log). FSI is a blessing for pronunciation. I think it is partly because of that, that I was mistaken for a native speaker (at least for one minute :D :D), because my pronunciation was really good. It it is really a important part in Hungarian, as they don't expect foreigners to speak Hungarian, they are not used to some "strange" Hungarian. And for the old-fashioned Hungarian... I don't think it is soo old fashioned. I mean, all the greeting, "please come in" etc are used today. What is old fashion are the electronic devices, for sure (and sometimes, there is a new word for this). I can assure you as I had a Hungarian boyfriend (and what impressed me the most), was that the "galanterie" was still respected. He helped me with my coat, held the door open, I entered first in public building, but not in bars, bought flower to my mom, payed all in restaurant, exhibition and transports. Being a westerner girl, this was quite a shock the first time ( I desesperatly searched for my coat, only to find out that he held it ready for me :D) and that I really liked it. Of course, it wasn't strict and if I wanted to pay, I could. I also noticed that a person really give a seat for elderly people. Children are not noisy, you are greeted with "kezét csókolom", everytime you order something in a café, they wish you a pleasant drink and stay etc. I think it is quickly disappearing, but I have heard, that if you want a hungarian woman, without galanterie, they won't accept you :) (Because I asked my boyfriend why he did that :)). So, maybe FSI isn't so bad afterall :D. What do you think ? Zsófi Edited by Kisfroccs on 11 August 2011 at 10:25am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| The Stephen Diglot Groupie United States Joined 5043 days ago 65 posts - 77 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Czech, Hungarian | Message 36 of 43 12 August 2011 at 8:56am | IP Logged | |||||
|
Kezét csókolom Zsófi ;)
I downloaded the FSI text right after I posted, so I was probably reviewing Unit 1 as you were replying. Sure enough, I remembered about 95% of it just from doing it a couple of years ago, which is pretty amazing. Except like you I usually only did pronunciation and substitution drills. I went over all the drills without the audio though, and I thought the translation drill in particular was pretty fun, probably because it wasn't so repetitive and it kind of consolidates all the content into conversational chunks. I was already somewhat aware of politeness being very important in Hungary, but I wasn't sure as to what degree this was true. So it's good to know all the formal stuff in FSI is still usable. As well as the galanterie (we call it 'chivalry'). Even Assimil stresses this from the beginning with kívánok. But I do have a question: You said you heard 'Uram' in Hungary, and in Assimil lesson 5 it says in the notes that you can say something like Kérem, Uram! But later, in lesson 8, it says in the notes that Uram is so polite that you can often suspect mockery with it. So I'm a little confused as to the situations where it's expected. As for today, I pretty much decided on option 2) from my previous post, which is to start another review of Assimil from the beginning. So what I did today was all review, since I'm on lesson 35, which is a revision lesson. So I reviewed 29-34, and then did a more in-depth review of 1-6. This meant I listened to the dialog, then translated the English to Hungarian (like in the active phase and including the gyakorlat), then finally did the fill-in-the-blank exercises, which I've been ignoring, to my detriment. I decided to take on all six at once because they're pretty easy and I feel I should've started this review sooner, so this way I can catch up a bit. The grammar notes don't feel so overwhelming this time around. Unfortunately I planned on looking over Unit 2 of FSI today, but I ended up spending so much time on Assimil that I don't feel I can do anything else today. FSI Units are loooong, even when you already know the material. In fact, come to think of it, my combining six Assimil lessons into one isn't so different from doing one FSI Unit... Viszontlátásra (how do you say "write you again"?) asszonyom (és a másik is, akik ezt olvassák), Az István Edited by The Stephen on 12 August 2011 at 8:57am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Kisfroccs Bilingual Pentaglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 5400 days ago 388 posts - 549 votes Speaks: French*, German*, EnglishC1, Swiss-German, Hungarian Studies: Italian, Serbo-Croatian | Message 37 of 43 12 August 2011 at 10:42am | IP Logged | |||||
I will try to answer your question with what I heard and read :), in German so it's easier for me. - Jó reggelt (kívánok) - Jó napot (kívánok) - Jó estét (kívánok) Ungefär : Einen Guten Tag wünsche ich, wobei "wünsche ich" respektvoller ist. In der Familie hört man auch "Reggelt!", "Szia!" usw. Bei Freunden "Szia", "Szio", Szióka", "Csá", "Pa" usw. Davon gibt es x-Varianten, die man aber nur bei Freunden anwendet. "Szia", "Helló", "Hello", "Hallo", "Halló" kann man auch in Geschäften benutzen, wenn die Verkäufer jung sind. In Restaurant habe ich es noch nie benutzt. Sein Vater hat ihn immer mit "Fiam" angeredet, was soviel wie "mein Sohn" bedeutet, vielleicht auch "mein Junge" (was ich auch manchmal von meinem Grossvater bei meinem Bruder höre). In der Schule wurde er auch mit "mein Junge" angeredet - so hat er mir es mehrmals erzählt. In meiner Fernsehserie werden die Leute der Familie mit "Lányom", "Kicsikém", "Fiam", "Onurom" (von Onur, ein Name), angeredet und ich glaube, es ist noch durchaus gebraucht. Generell habe ich gemerkt, dass die Familie sehr liebevoll sind und die Ungar sehr gastfreundlich (sehr !). Da alle Ungar den gleichen Namen habe, werden schnell Spitznamen gegeben. Wie im Russischen, gibt es auch unzählige Diminutive. István = Pista, Gergely = Gergõ, Gergi, László = Laci, Annamária = Ancsa, Zsófia = Zsófi. Diminutive werden auch am Arbeitsplatz benutz. Mein Freund wurde mit seinem Diminutiv gerufen, ich rufe ihn mit seinen Spitznamen. Dann gibt es noch liebevolle Kosenamen, wie "Baby", "Szivi", "Drágám", "Cica" usw. Frauen nennen ihren Freund, wenn sie von ihm reden "a pasim". "Pasi" ist aber ein Wort, was nur von Frauen benutzt wird. Was von Männer benutzt wird, weiss ich noch nicht. Das ist wie im Französischem, wo du leicht deinen Freund als "mon homme" (mein Mann) bezeichnest. Im Französischem gibt es etliche :) - kisasszony (Fräulein) - asszonyom, hölgyem (wenn ich jetzt daran denke, habe ich "hölgyem" mehr gehört) - Uram (kein andere Wiese gefunden) - Elnezést, uram (Entschuldigen sie "mein" Herr) - Kérem, uram (Ich bitte sie, mein Herr) Auch in Deutsch kann es unfreundlich sein. Ich glaube, es liegt nicht an Uram, sondern an "kérem". "Kérem" habe ich nur von Bettlern gehört. Kann mich aber auch täuschen. - tisztelt... (in opposition von "kedves", weniger respektvoller). Wird überall benutzt, in der Metro (liebe Fahrgäste), im Einkaufszentrum (liebe Käufer), im Buch (liebe Leser) usw. - Tessék ? Wird quasi überall benutzt als Antwort. Du kommst in Café rein, und man fragt "Tessék?". Man bittet dich rein : "Tessék.", am Telephon "Tessék ?". Bitte, ich habe nicht gehört : "Tessék ?". Man gibt dir dein Kaffee : "Tessék." usw. Vielleicht kann man es als "Bitte" übersetzen. - Folgaljon helyet, kérem. Nehmen sie Platz, ich bitte sie. - Rögtön visszajövök. Ich komme gleich zurück. - Nagyon szívesen. Sehr gerne geschehen. - Gratulálok ! Herzlichen Glückwunsch ! - Nagyon kedves vagy. Du bist sehr nett. - Fõnök. Chef - Bocsánat, Bocs, Bocsi (mit "i" schöner, für Frauen) - Köszönöm, Kösz, Köszi (gleiche hier) - Elnezést kérek : ich bitte um Entschuldigung (immer gut :)) - Semmi baj ! Kein Problem - Nincs mit! Keine Ursache - Elõre is köszönöm. Danke im Voraus. - Isten, Isten ! = Prost ("Gott", "Gott" ! sehr familiär) und ich finde es lustig. So, hope that wasn't to much in one time :) Zsófika 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| The Stephen Diglot Groupie United States Joined 5043 days ago 65 posts - 77 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Czech, Hungarian | Message 38 of 43 14 August 2011 at 10:02am | IP Logged | |||||
|
Wow Zsófi, vielen Dank dafür! Es gibt siemlich nichts mehr darüber zu sprechen! Dazu finde ich es ganz witzig, dass die Ungarn auch alle die gleichen Namen haben. In den US, gibt es meistens Michael, John, Matthew, Stephen (natürlich :)), Andrew, Chris, Justin und ein paar weiter. Das sind etwa 90% den Amerikanischen Namen!
Und mit "kérem" und "tessék": Selbst Assimil gibt zu, dass ihre Benutzung schwer zu erklären ist. Eine Frage zu Szio und Szióka: was bedeutet "-ka" (auch in "Zsófika")? Okey dokey! Hmmm...what can I say about Hungarian? I'm feeling better with my new routine. Today, for example, I learned more colors and the superlative forms. It's easy too: jó (good), jobb (better), legjobb (best). And I got some reinforcement with familiar imperative forms (Szólj és Mondd). For some reason I found this lesson to be a lot easier than usual. I picked up on it pretty quick. Hopefully this is a sign of things to come! And of course I did my review lessons too (just #8 and #9). I'm picking up the words and concepts much more easily (obviously), as well as things I never noticed before. Like in lesson 8, there's a sentence: "Itt van két csekk" (Here are two checks). Now, I knew from later lessons that when you tell how much of something you have, in this case 2, you use the following noun in the singular, hence "csekk" instead of "csekkek". What I never realized though, is how this would also affect the verbs too, in this case "van" instead of "vannak". So to translate "Itt van két csekk" literally, it would be "Here is two check". That'll take some getting used to, but at least I understand it. However I'm surprised at how this usually note-happy book failed to say anything about this situation. Hmmm. I've decided that I'm not going to do FSI. I'm happy with my Assimil regimen and spend plenty of time on it. Sziasztok, Az István (vagy "az Pista"? :)) Edited by The Stephen on 14 August 2011 at 10:04am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| The Stephen Diglot Groupie United States Joined 5043 days ago 65 posts - 77 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Czech, Hungarian | Message 39 of 43 15 August 2011 at 9:05am | IP Logged | |||||
|
Just a quick update. I did lesson 38 of Assimil today, and at the end he tells you to go back and start reviewing the lessons one at a time. He doesn't mention the active phase, and it would still be too early for that anyway, so it looks like I made the right move, but a little ahead of schedule! Ha!
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| The Stephen Diglot Groupie United States Joined 5043 days ago 65 posts - 77 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Czech, Hungarian | Message 40 of 43 19 August 2011 at 10:10am | IP Logged | |||||
|
Sziasztok,
Just stopping by so you know I'm still alive. I'm on Assimil lesson 42 and lesson 14 in my review. If you're decent at math and familiar with Assimil, you'll know this means I have two separate review sessions, or rather one review session and one review session of reviews. Which means I'll probably have to reschedule my reviews so they're staggered and I don't have to look at 14 lessons in one day again... 2 persons have voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
