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Why would you learn French? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| FrostBlast Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5099 days ago 168 posts - 254 votes  Speaks: French*, English Studies: Spanish, Russian, Swedish, Icelandic | Message 41 of 52 09 April 2011 at 3:46am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I get the same feeling concerning Dostoevsky's novels. I've read quite a few of his works in their new french translations (by André Markowicz at Babel editions - awesome translations) and I now feel like I absolutely must read Dostoevsky in its original Russian versions. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6550 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 42 of 52 09 April 2011 at 5:03am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
It's cool that you want to improve your attitude, etc, but the above statement is plenty motivation. You'll do fine.
What tripe. This is the old "unless you are motivated in the way I see fit, you will fail" philosophy. Tsk tsk. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| HMS Senior Member England Joined 5107 days ago 143 posts - 256 votes Speaks: English* | Message 43 of 52 09 April 2011 at 5:23am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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I think a good reason to learn French - is that you would know what the buggers are up to and what they are planning next ;) Edited by HMS on 09 April 2011 at 5:24am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5766 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 44 of 52 09 April 2011 at 6:54pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I think some people here are mixing up different kinds of motivation and ressource management strategies. In a situation where you have previous negative experience, the task at hand becomes aversive and even when there's a new incentive it still takes a lot of will power to do that task - or effective ressource management. Will power will be drained in no time, and people learn different things from this. If you know when to take a break, you'll probably learn that with using some of your will power you can do it, and so the task at hand will become less aversive. If you're like me and tend to exert yourself once you start using your will power to make yourself do something, the task will become more aversive to you. (That's especially bad if you're in a situation where you can't restore your energy by sleeping well every night, by the way.) The ways out of that situation I know are to let someone else set the pace for you (good if you can trust that person and s/he is good at this kind of thing), or to add intrinsic motivation to the task itself. Which this thread is about, finding intrinsic motivation for French. Not goals. Not personality traits. Things that could be fun to do, now. (Of course, learning not to overdo it should be the long-term goal, but that's really difficult and probably can't be achieved in a time span that is relevant to the task at hand.) Edited by Bao on 09 April 2011 at 6:56pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6550 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 45 of 52 09 April 2011 at 7:28pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I understand what you're saying, but I disagree. He's asked for some help, and I agree we should give it to him. But telling him he's going to fail because there are some issues he has with the language is excessive, don't you agree? As for will power being drained in no time, and various other statements of doom and gloom, I believe the people who say these things should see these as personal weaknesses. Instead of telling others they are also going to fail, they should look at themselves and ask why they are not able to overcome these things. We are being bombarded with many falsehoods on the internet today. Language learning is easy. Everything about language learning should be fun. You can learn a language in no time. These things can be motivating in the short term. Just long enough for someone to make a buck. Unfortunately, the statements are a double edged sword. if one starts to have problems, they might see themselves as somehow inferior, and lose confidence. I didn't learn that grammar point in no time, what's wrong with me? I've been studying a year; why am I not fluent like everybody else? Learning French isn't gleeful every single day - I'm going to fail for sure. Tripe. Anyway Bao, I realize you are not necessarily disagreeing with me. And hrhenry is a very sharp guy. I was just looking for an excuse to rant a little. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5766 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 46 of 52 09 April 2011 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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(I actually was pretty annoyed by people who didn't even seem to read the first post and only replied to the thread title ... but those exist everywhere.)
If you look closely, everyone who replied here used their own point of view to interpret the original question. If I recall correctly, you, leosmith, learnt Thai for and with your wife. From that and some other statements you made I came to the conclusion that for you the emotional connection to somebody you love is an important motivator, so important that it probably can override a negative attitude towards something. Or rather it will help you keep trying until you figure out a way. Hrhenry has his own story and interpretation, and I have mine. For me, my bond to somebody will actually make it harder for me to overcome a negative attitude towards something related to that person because I tend to guilt trip myself. And LanguageSponge? I have no idea. I hope he knows himself. But I do believe that neither saying 'you can do it!' not 'you can't to it anyways!' is particularly helpful when a person asks for tips on how to do something. I'm not saying that you're bound to fail when you have to use your will power to make yourself do something. I'm just saying that it only can bring you so far, and then you have to rely on other methods. As I said, ressource management. Like taking baby steps, adding as much intrinsic motivation as possible, building a habit of practising just for a moment at certain times/after doing certain things, making a matching positive memory one can recall everytime a negative memory surfaces ... there surely are plenty more tricks that I have no idea of. I didn't even think of my 'positive memory' habit when I replied in here before because I do it automatically. (Floating through my mind are the group of young Africans I overheard the day before yesterday and being able to get the gist of their French conversation, the last time I went on a day trip to France, the first time when I read French and just, well, read, without thinking that it should be so terribly difficult, the moment recently when I realized that I was listening to a discussion about nuclear energy and its future and that I could understand most of the arguments and the opinion of each speaker, times when I am supposed to learn a new grammar point and I can already use it correctly thanks to Spanish and exposure to French, a crazy multilingual conversation I had the other day just because it was possible, reading on viedermerde and often enough understanding why something is supposed to be funny - little things like that. I'm still a beginner, after all.) Edited by Bao on 09 April 2011 at 8:15pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6550 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 47 of 52 09 April 2011 at 8:51pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
The first post, if you read the whole thing carefully like I did, says he wants people to tell him why they would learn French. That pretty much matches the title. So I'm afraid I don't understand your comment. I am guilty of not replying correctly, but so are the people who jumped in and told the op he would fail.
That wasn't me, but it's a nice story. I would probably divorce someone who caused me frequent pain. That's how shallow I am. But the op is motivated. Not only is he trying to save his relationship, he has said that he will not let the language defeat him. He is clearly not a wimp, and understands the challenge. I wish they would open this up in Vegas, because I'd like to bet on him.
As I said, this is a weakness. Admit it, work on it, but please don't go telling others they must fail simply because you have a certain weakness.
And as I said, tripe. Language learning isn't always fun. Being able to handle the downs as well as the ups is a much better strategy than trying to turn everything into an up. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 5130 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 48 of 52 09 April 2011 at 9:25pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
There was a reason I said he would fail, and it didn't have anything to do with French as a language. Perhaps I read too much into his words (although he admitted as much in a later post), but his negativity doesn't seem to have much to do with the language itself (he talked of his girlfriend "rabbiting on" and Bordeaux "supposedly being great" at wine making. Again, maybe I read too much into his words, but from my vantage point, he won't get far with the language with these other obstacles in the way. I suggested later that maybe he should try do something with his girlfriend within a "French" context, not worrying about the language, with the hope that he could find something positive outside the language to spur him on. a couple other people have suggested the same thing. In any case, he needs to get rid of the non-linguistic negativity - something I don't think will be accomplished by reading great French literature. My opinion, obviously. R. == 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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