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Placing words like ’rien’ in French | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Haldor Triglot Senior Member France Joined 5615 days ago 103 posts - 122 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Swedish Studies: French, Spanish | Message 1 of 23 10 July 2011 at 2:07pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I know the French say 'j'en ai rien dit' but how about for instance rien du tout. Is it J'en ai rien dit du tout or j'en ai dit rien du tout? My French professor never explained the rules on how to plce the words..
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| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6011 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 2 of 23 10 July 2011 at 2:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
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If in doubt, cheat. "Rien du tout" is often heard on it's own, so you can always tag it on the end as an intensifier "je n'en ai rein dit, rien du tout" (although I thought it was "rien de tout" personally, but the internet isn't clear).
(Yes, OK, the "ne" bit isn't really used in speech, but I'm keepin in the habit of writing it because I've got a few French essays to write this year...) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Haldor Triglot Senior Member France Joined 5615 days ago 103 posts - 122 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Swedish Studies: French, Spanish | Message 3 of 23 10 July 2011 at 4:12pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Okay, another example: beaucoup. J'ai beaucoup connu, j'ai connu beaucoup de gens, right.. I think you would call these words (beaucoup, rien etc..) pronouns. They only become tricky when one uses the passé composé tense...
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| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6011 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 4 of 23 10 July 2011 at 4:38pm | IP Logged | |||||
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"rien" works the same ways as "pas", "jamais", "guère", "personne" etc. This is a different type of word from "beaucoup".
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| simonov Senior Member Portugal Joined 5589 days ago 222 posts - 438 votes Speaks: English | Message 5 of 23 11 July 2011 at 10:29am | IP Logged | |||||
You thought wrong. It is "rien du tout" unless "tout" is further qualified: rien de tout cela rien de tout ce que tu as dit The translation into English shows the difference quite clearly: "rien du tout" = Nothing at all. "rien de tout cela" = Nothing of all that "rien de tout ce qu'il a dit" = Nothing of all what/[that] he's said .....
Not quite. All those negations come immediately after the conjugated verb-form (real verb or auxiliary), except for "personne" which is practically always placed after the main verb, not after the auxiliary. Compare: Je ne vois rien. - Je ne vois personne. (no difference) Je ne peux rien voir. - Je ne peux voir personne. (different word-order) Je n'ai rien vu. - Je n'ai vu personne. [Though you can occasionally see/hear "Je n'ai personne vu". But it's rare] 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| simonov Senior Member Portugal Joined 5589 days ago 222 posts - 438 votes Speaks: English | Message 6 of 23 11 July 2011 at 10:34am | IP Logged | |||||
As I've said above, "rien" has to come after the conjugated verb, so it has to be: Je n'en ai rien dit du tout. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Haldor Triglot Senior Member France Joined 5615 days ago 103 posts - 122 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Swedish Studies: French, Spanish | Message 7 of 23 11 July 2011 at 7:45pm | IP Logged | |||||
And this goes for all of the words? Obviuously not personne, but what about 'beaucoup'? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4909 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 8 of 23 14 July 2011 at 10:37pm | IP Logged | |||||
Beaucoup is an adjective, not a pronoun. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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