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Tense confusion in English... | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Sennin Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 6034 days ago 1457 posts - 1759 votes  5 sounds | Message 1 of 13 18 September 2011 at 11:28pm | IP Logged | ||
English tenses are a real source of grief for me, so I would appreciate some help. Which of the following extracts do you think are correct:
I know it is a lame question but I have to ask anyway :-). Edited by Fasulye on 20 September 2011 at 1:46pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Dr. POW Groupie Canada Joined 4965 days ago 48 posts - 58 votes Studies: German, English* Studies: French | Message 2 of 13 19 September 2011 at 3:41am | IP Logged | ||
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The correct spelling is "planned", not "planed". The word planed does have a meaning,
however. They all sound pretty good to me. 1, 3, and 4 sound the best. Saying "are planned" is correct, but just sounds a bit weird, but it could be a regional thing. The difference between the simple past and the present perfect are a bit blurry in North America, so what sounds right to me might sound a bit weird to somebody from the UK. Edited by Dr. POW on 19 September 2011 at 3:42am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Sennin Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 6034 days ago 1457 posts - 1759 votes 5 sounds | Message 3 of 13 19 September 2011 at 1:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you Dr. POW.
As fas as I know the difference is that "have been" places some emphasis on the outcome of the action. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| schoenewaelder Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5560 days ago 759 posts - 1197 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 4 of 13 19 September 2011 at 3:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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For me (uk perspective) the sentences are virtually identical, and the choice would probably depend more on (for example) the sound or rhythm of the words, or sentence length, or personal style.
If I was to try to read some nuances into it, "their actions have been planned" implies more careful thought and consideration has been put into the planning, while "their actions are planned" implies that the actual details of the planning were less important, perhaps even routine, but they are ready to leap into action. But these nuances would be overridden by any other information or context. I assume sentence 1 is grammatically identical to 3, and the "have been" from the first clause is simply re-implied. But it may be that you can assume either construction, as they are both so similar. Edited by schoenewaelder on 19 September 2011 at 3:18pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Sennin Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 6034 days ago 1457 posts - 1759 votes 5 sounds | Message 5 of 13 19 September 2011 at 10:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hmm, ok. I guess there is no strict rule on this if you say it's a question of rhythm and style. My intuition was that N1 and N4 are the best ones.
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 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6703 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 13 20 September 2011 at 11:30am | IP Logged | ||
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For me there are differences in meaning, although in practice these differences would probably not be important. NB I have changed "planed" to "planned"
1. "Most pieces have been arranged on the game board, and their actions planned. " Shorter version of no. 3 2. "Most pieces have been arranged on the game board, and their actions are planned. " Somebody arranged the pieces on the game board, and it has been confirmed that their actions in the future are planned 3. "Most pieces have been arranged on the game board, and their actions have been planned. " Somebody arranged the pieces on the game board, and (presumably) the same person(s) also planned their future actions 4. "Most pieces are arranged on the game board, and their actions have been planned. " Right now the pieces are standing on the game board (it isn't important how they got there), and somebody has planned their future actions 5. "Most pieces are arranged on the game board, and their actions are planned. " Right now the pieces are standing on the game board and there are plans for their future actions. It isn't important how they got there or when, and the same applies to their plans. Edited by Iversen on 20 September 2011 at 11:31am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5430 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 7 of 13 20 September 2011 at 12:14pm | IP Logged | ||
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From my perspective, they are all the same. Not that subtle differences can not be found, as Iversen has pointed out. Here we are looking at four slightly different written forms. The natural tendency is to see some subtle difference in meaning. If these examples were spoken at a natural speed with all the typical contractions of spoken speech, how many people would detect a difference? Very few in my opinion.
This, by the way, is one of the big differences between spoken and written language. As we all know to well, the written language is a permanent form that we can return to and reflect upon. The spoken language is fleeting, and I suggest that in certain areas of grammar, we tend to hear what we expect to hear. Most people, including myself, cannot remember verbatim something that was said a few minutes earlier unless it was of particular significance. But we can paraphrase it. And we tend to paraphrase it in our own language. All of this to say that I really wouldn't lose any sleep over the interpretation of the examples given here. I would use any one. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6439 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 8 of 13 20 September 2011 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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I prefer 4, and would say "planned out" rather than just "planned", and "moves" or "movements" rather than "actions". I like 1 less, but would probably use it in some contexts. Using "have been" twice in the same sentence seems a bit grating to me, so I'd tend not to use 3, at least in writing - not sure if I might in speech.
2 and 5 seem a little off, somehow. There's something about the use of 'are' for the second clause that's ever so slightly annoying, but I can't really put my finger on it. It's not wrong, per se. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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