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Speaking Parisian French to Canadians | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Rutabaga Bilingual Pentaglot Newbie Romania Joined 4927 days ago 27 posts - 46 votes Speaks: English*, Slovenian*, French, German, Russian Studies: Portuguese, Uzbek | Message 33 of 43 17 August 2011 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have to admit, I was wondering the same thing, AriD2385. I can't imagine having to change my accent every time I went to a new country. In fact, I think I would feel a little put off if someone deliberately tried to change their accent to sound more like me (if they were visiting from elsewhere). I'd think they were mocking me.
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| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5381 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes  Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 34 of 43 17 August 2011 at 6:13pm | IP Logged | ||
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If a person living in Québec has decided to learn French with a French accent, that would indeed come off as a little conscending, as if a Québec accent wasn't good enough or was something that should be avoided.
There are no doubt many people in France who appreciate and enjoy the Québec accent, or any other accent for that matter, but generally speaking, Parisians tend to frown upon accents. They can be pretty self-centered in that respect. In other words, if you speak with your own Québec accent, you run the risk of quickly becoming the butt of the joke or being singled out. As that article showed, some French guy made fun of the Québec accent. Some people don't care, are proud of who they are, and take it with a grain of salt, others can obviously be more self-conscious about it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Rob_Austria Heptaglot Groupie Austria Joined 5002 days ago 84 posts - 293 votes Speaks: German*, Italian, Spanish, French, English, Portuguese, Japanese Studies: Croatian, Mandarin, Russian, Arabic (Written), Turkish | Message 35 of 43 18 August 2011 at 11:18am | IP Logged | ||
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This is a really interesting thread. I had some friends from Québec stay over at my place a few years ago and we were talking about that subject as well. Basically, most of what they said reflected what Arekkusu wrote in his comments.
I have to say that I can readily sympathisize with my friends from Québec. Being Austrian, I sometimes get offended when people ask me if I am able to speak "Hochdeutsch" ("standard German"). It is like a slap in the face, as if only Germans could speak "proper German" because that is what most people associate with standard German. They seem to forget or simply ignore the fact that there are many equally valid variants of standard German. While we have our own accents, intonation and specific vocabulary in some areas, Austrians are certainly capable of speaking standard German. "Bundesdeutsch" (German spoken in Germany) is not very homogeneous either and it certainly is not the only version which can claim to be standard German. So, people here in Austria sometimes react in a similar way to German accents as French Canadians may react to a European French accent. Basically, however, it all comes down to how you behave as an individual. I certainly don't mind any German speaking to me with a German accent, but I really dislike those amongst them trying to portray German German as the only valid standard form. And, of course, I would never ever hold a grudge against a foreigner for speaking German with a German accent. I have come to realize that the vast majority of books for foreigners wishing to study German are published in Germany. If someone were to decide to live in Austria, however, I'd certainly appreciate if they tried to pick up our accent and I'm sure they will unless they "actively fight" it ;-)) On a final note, it is true that most Austrians speak in dialect in their daily life but as I said, we certainly are capable of speaking "proper" German (just with a nicer accent and intonation ;-) ;-) - just kidding). I like Canadian French but due to the fact that I'm rarely exposed to it, I mostly find it quite difficult to understand. I tend to automatically mimick accents when I stay in a certain area for an extended period of time so I guess I'd be picking up some pecularities of French Canadian. It would be more of an automatic reaction of me being exposed to the language rather than a conscious decision I guess. Having said that, I never had any problems when speaking some sort of "European French" in Québec. Maybe this was also due to the fact that French is not my mother tongue, so I most likely have a distinctive accent for any native speaker of French anyway. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| floydak Tetraglot Groupie Slovakia Joined 4854 days ago 60 posts - 85 votes Speaks: Slovak*, English, German, Spanish Studies: French | Message 36 of 43 18 August 2011 at 11:24am | IP Logged | ||
well, you should understand, that it's not becouse they want slap your face, but becouse they are taught "hochdeutsch" in school and they don't understand nor can speak various dialects/ 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Rob_Austria Heptaglot Groupie Austria Joined 5002 days ago 84 posts - 293 votes Speaks: German*, Italian, Spanish, French, English, Portuguese, Japanese Studies: Croatian, Mandarin, Russian, Arabic (Written), Turkish | Message 37 of 43 18 August 2011 at 8:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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[/QUOTE] well, you should understand, that it's not becouse they want slap your face, but becouse they are taught "hochdeutsch" in school and they don't understand nor can speak various dialects/ [/QUOTE] When I speak with foreigners, especially if I meet them for the first time, I never speak in dialect and standard Austrian IS "Hochdeutsch", just with a different accent and a different intonation ;-) So, they should be able to understand me. But, yes you are right, it certainly is very difficult for someone who has been taught "Hochdeutsch" in school to understand the various dialects. No doubt about that. What I was referring to in particular, however, was the presumption that Austrians would not be able to speak standard German ("Hochdeutsch"). This is just not true. I do admit that most of us speak in dialect at home and sometimes even in offices. I am sure,however, that our teachers or news anchors for example speak German just as well or correct as their German counterparts. And there are lots of expressions which are very common in spoken "Bundesdeutsch" (German spoken in Germany) and completely incorrect if you go by the standards of what is taught in school (listen to any news program and you will hear quite a few people mixing up "das" and "was" as in "das Mädchen, was ich gesehen habe" instead of "das Mädchen, das ich gesehen habe"). Just as lots of Austrians use quite a few incorrect structures (we are notorious for saying "besser wie" instead of "besser als" for example). I guess, we just have to face the fact that we all make mistakes ;-) I have two foreign sisters-in-law and after having lived in Austria for more than 10 years they understand our dialect(s) pretty well and have accustomed to them. Even so they say (and I completely understand their reasoning) that they find it easier to understand Germans (unless they speak in a specific dialect). To cut a long story short, whenever a language is spoken by more than just one nation or people, there are bound to be regional differences and this basically should be seen as something enriching and worth being kept alive. The problems start when one group of speakers declares its variant to be superior to others. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5381 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 38 of 43 18 August 2011 at 8:57pm | IP Logged | ||
There isn't and cannot be anything about a given dialect that makes it intrisically harder to understand; it's solely a matter of being accustomed to a given form of speech over another. My wife finds it easier to understand Québec French than any form of European French, simply because that's what she's used to. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| yall Diglot Newbie Italy Joined 5961 days ago 22 posts - 31 votes Speaks: English*, Italian Studies: Latin, French | Message 39 of 43 20 August 2011 at 1:19am | IP Logged | ||
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I agree with AriD2385 and Rutabaga. Who really expects people to change their accent in every country they visit, especially when we are talking about foreign speakers of a language? In my experience, 99% of the foreign speakers of English I hear do not sound English, American, Australian, etc, they just sound foreign. Occasionally, they will pronounce a word in a certain way that tells me what variety of English they learned, but other than that the only time I can tell if they learned British or American English is if they use some vocabulary that is different between the two. I would only perceive this as snobbish if, say, after living in the US for 10 years they still called cigarettes fags or something.
My French isn't that good, but I would think it about the same with Canadian and Parisian French. At least the Quebeckers I have met were nice and I can't really see them getting mad about which way a foreigner speaks French. I think someone would have to have near-native pronunciation and be staying somewhere long-term for this to even be an issue. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Dr. POW Groupie Canada Joined 4965 days ago 48 posts - 58 votes Studies: German, English* Studies: French | Message 40 of 43 26 August 2011 at 5:10am | IP Logged | ||
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There was a post in a French language learning forum I use often (french.about.com)
claiming that in France, they put subtitles on television whenever a person from Quebec is speaking/being interviewed, which seems a little weird to me. They also said that Quebecers tend to drop syllables or sounds at the end of certain words. "Paysan" instead of "parisien" or "choisi" instead of "choisir" (isn't that last one supposed to be like that?) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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