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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| Silenz Newbie AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4913 days ago 23 posts - 33 votes Studies: French, German, Russian | Message 1 of 39 12 June 2011 at 9:18am | IP Logged | ||
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Greetings. I have been studying the German language for ~2 months or so now.
Previously, I had been using Rosetta Stone. I was initially quite impressed, however, I started to find that a few concepts weren't very clear with their teaching method. At this point I decided to do some more research into other learning methods, and found this forum. Obviously, there is a vast amount of information available here. The problem is, this comes from many different people, with different opinions on both quality, and ideal goals. I have done some research, and have come up with some sort of learning plan to base my studies upon. My ultimate goal is to become a fluent (able to comfortably converse about any topic I am likely to want/need to) speaker, and, through this, a proficient writer. I have a vast amount of resources available to me, through my university library, and online sources. Currently, this is my plan of attack, with an explanation for each step: Ultimate goal: To understand, and be understood, with no difficulty for either party. Specific goals: Form coherent speech Form correctly structured sentences Maintain a suitably sized vocabulary list Initially: [1] Go through both the Michel Thomas, and Pimsleur basic courses simultaneously. Why? From what I have read, this combination will get me started off with a strong base in basic grammar and sentence structure, as well as pronounciation, which will be useful for speaking, and forming coherent sentences. As I understand, Pimsleur exceeds most other courses in the area of pronounciation, and from what I have listened to so far, I can understand why. Michel Thomas, on the other hand, focuses far more on the grammatical aspect of German, which is also evident in the few lessons I've listened to so far. [1.5] At some stage during my study of the Pimsleur and MT courses, I will start using the FSI "Fast" course. Why? This will, hopefully, help me to extend my vocabulary, and refresh some of the content learned in the previous 2 courses. From what I have listened to and read from the course, it seems like this will be a useful tool. Throughout this period, I will also be using my German phrase book (Lonely planet - I've heard nothing but good about this, and this seems to be true, judging by what I've seen whilst skimming through) to further increase my vocabulary, and knowledge of typical phrases, and what (or what not) to say in particular situations. [2] When these are mostly/completely finished, I will move onto the GerGermanGrammar course, for learning, and refining grammar concepts which aren't entirely understood. Why? The reason for doing this should be self explanatory. Why am I leaving grammar specific lessons until now? I want to have a greater vocabulary first, so I have a stronger sense of context when learning the grammar rules, etc. [2.5] Once the basic courses are complete, I will move further into the Pimsleur and MT courses, and start making more posts on Lang-8. (I have already started making posts on lang-8, but after having some sentences corrected, and not understanding completely why, I decided it would be useful to learn a little bit more grammar, and appropriate vocabulary.) Why? This will further my understanding and knowledge of grammar and vocabulary, and, by making posts on lang-8, I can confirm whether this knowledge is correct. In the cases where it is not, I will know what must be fixed. [3] Start reading books, watching German tv, and finding German locals/Skype partners to speak to. Why? To increase my vocabulary, reinforce and refresh concepts previously learned and to ensure my pronounciation is indeed correct. Once I start actual conversations, I will be forced into actively listening as well. This will hopefully improve my understanding of the meaning behind the language, as well as getting some 'friendly' and modern speaking habbits, rather than "walking into a room with a top hat and monocle, and addressing everyone in perfect 1950's formal German" (Thank you, whoever posted that on this forum. It made me chuckle.) [4] Once I am fairly confident with the social and typical aspects of the language, I will start learning about more specific subjects, relevent to my work/study. Why? It could be hugely beneficial for my working career, and also, it would make working in my field in a German speaking country a far more realisable dream. Also, I will be able to converse more freely with others who have similar interests. Throughout all of this, I will be listening to German radio stations, and reading from various other textbooks that I can find. As far as I can tell, this should get me close to the point I am aiming for. As for the amount of time I want to accomplish this in, I will hoepfully be going on an exchange program with my university to Germany during second semester next year (This starts in August in Australia. The exchange period is approx. 6 months), which gives me approximately 12 months to get to a level where I can converse somewhat comfortably, and 18 months to reach my ultiamte goal. I want to be quite comfortable speaking to a German person, in German, and be able to socialise, shop and perform in other necessary situations where mostly/only German will be spoken before I arrive in the country, and meet the other goals by the time I depart. What I would like is feedback from people who have used these courses. I don't want opinions on how good they are, but whether they are entirely appropriate for the purposes I have mentioned. If anyone has suggestions for better resources that could help me achieve my goals faster/more easily/more proficiently, and why this is so, I would appreciate your comments. If anyone thinks I am going in the wrong direction, or doing something that I needn't do, please take the time to explain why, and it would also be greatly appreciated. Side notes: Resources I currently have (or should be able to gain) access to, and reasons why I'm not using them (if applicable): Rosetta Stone, German levels 1-5. - Some concepts just become too abstract to be effectively taught with their method, Living language, In flight German - Content seems to just be introductory stuff that I have covered in Rosetta Stone, or will cover in my course. Colloquial German - Not sure about this, have heard some good things about it, though. Linguaphone Deutsches Kurses - Same deal Pimsleur I, II, III, + Michel Thomas Basic, Advanced, Language builder FSI Fast course Lonely Planet phrase book GerGermanGrammer Various vocabulary and grammar books German counterparts of various English books. dict.cc Lang-8 This forum. If anyone feels like chatting to me in German on skype in the near future, add me and we can have a chat. I need to get used to using it, lol. As mentioned, I am looking for feedback on the structure of the plan and materials, and whether I have made the appropriate choices. Edited by Silenz on 12 June 2011 at 10:47am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6010 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes  Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 2 of 39 12 June 2011 at 11:48am | IP Logged | ||
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The thing with Pimsleur for pronunciation is it doesn't make it clear which phoneme you're looking at. Thomas's pronunciation is pretty poor, but he always makes it clear that you're pronouncing a different sound.
So I'd recommend getting a fair bit into MT before starting Pimsleur -- that way you'd be mapping the correct accent onto the structure of the sound system. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Silenz Newbie AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4913 days ago 23 posts - 33 votes Studies: French, German, Russian | Message 3 of 39 12 June 2011 at 12:05pm | IP Logged | ||
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I did notice that he placed a lot more emphasis on making sure his pupils pronounce those
clearly. Especially with 't' at the end of ist. Doing both at the same time probably won't hurt, though, as it should put multiple parts of my pronounciation on the right track. MT also seems to move a lot faster, regardless, so I'll probably end up further along MT in any case. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5564 days ago 938 posts - 1840 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 4 of 39 12 June 2011 at 5:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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Your method is pretty much the method I followed in the beginning - MT - Pimsleur - MT Advanced again - - Living Language Ultimate - You will also need some formal practice on cases - so a grammar example book or the Hugo 3 Months course is a good addition.
Which version of Linguaphone have you got? 50s-60s or 70s-present? Both are great, the 70s-present one in particular. I just printed out the FSI Fast course - it looks good beginner stuff and the dialogues are quite fast, so well worth doing. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| zekecoma Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5343 days ago 561 posts - 655 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish | Message 5 of 39 12 June 2011 at 7:25pm | IP Logged | ||
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I would say use Assimil German with Ease rather than mess with FSI. I never liked FSI. If
you can possibly wait until July, Assimil should release a new German book. I have used Pimsleur and I'd have to say, it's not that great. It is very boring and long. Michal Thomas is great, but the problem with that, he does always pronounce the stuff correctly. Like for example, in the word "Ich" he pronounces the "ch" has in "loch" rather than with "çh" and the same with "nicht" Edited by zekecoma on 12 June 2011 at 7:28pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6010 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 6 of 39 13 June 2011 at 12:42am | IP Logged | ||
Fortunately, that's a non-phonemic difference (I think! isn't it the case that CH palatises after I in German?). This is what I mean about doing MT before Pimsleur. Pimsleur bombards you with sounds, but you don't get the feeling for which are simply allophones of a single phoneme. Learn the phonemes accurately and the accent can be modified later. Learn accent without knowing the phonemes, and the resulting representation in your brain is sonic spaghetti.... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5564 days ago 938 posts - 1840 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 7 of 39 13 June 2011 at 10:25am | IP Logged | ||
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The OP is referring to the FSI Fast course - which is very different to the full on FSI German basic - I had a read last night and its more like a dialogue course - Its short and free (only 10 lessons) and its set in post unification Germany, so its relatively modern. Personally, I think it would be a good thing to do after MT/Pimsleur and before Linguaphone/Assimil.
As to Michel Thomas - doesn't he tell his students that ich is pronounced with a soft 'ish' rather than a ch as in loch? I can't remember, maybe he doesn't follow his own rules in speaking. In any case I remember the female student annoyingly does everything as an English 'ish' (as in fish) - which is probably correct for some local German dialects, but is not the ch as in the h of English 'human' or 'Hugh' that is normally taught as 'correct' pronounciation (and is how my relatives from Hamburg pronounce it). Edited by Elexi on 13 June 2011 at 10:34am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Silenz Newbie AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4913 days ago 23 posts - 33 votes Studies: French, German, Russian | Message 8 of 39 13 June 2011 at 12:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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Elexi: I am finding the students somewhat annoying in their forgetfulness/accents, but
it gives me more time to perfect my own pronounciation if I just ignore them. Also, I have no idea which version of Linguaphone, I just recall seeing it at one of the libraries I checked out. I could probably find out. If it's the 70's one, I'll be sure to have a look through. Cainntear: I am starting to take a far greater liking to MT, however I will still continue using both. Was going through the Pimsleur courses at work today, and really did begin to notice what you meant in your first post. Zekecoma: I've heard nothing but good about Assimil, and wouldn't mind checking it out, however I don't want to spend too much money now, given that I may need to look at buying a new car in the near future, lol. Also, Elexi, how far did the beginner+advanced MT courses get you? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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