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A question about English grammar | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| LanguageSponge Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5766 days ago 1197 posts - 1487 votes  Speaks: English*, German, French Studies: Welsh, Russian, Japanese, Slovenian, Greek, Italian | Message 1 of 12 25 August 2011 at 2:24pm | IP Logged |
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Okay, so I feel a little embarrassed even having to ask this, as a native speaker of
English. Which of the following is correct? (The sentence is a bit random, but I'm struggling to even think of a way to use the grammar here) I'm worrying about them feeling isolated in school OR I'm worrying about their feeling isolated in school I can't help thinking that a lot of natives would say or use the first option, but it occurred to me a little while back that it may not be right. Is it a case of written versus spoken form, or is the second one just outdated, although perhaps more correct if you're being fussy, just as a lot of natives don't use the English subjunctive where it's supposed to be used? Thanks, Jack 1 person has voted this message useful | |
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5847 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 2 of 12 25 August 2011 at 2:28pm | IP Logged |
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I am not a native speaker of English, but I would opt for the first alternative. The second alternative sounds weird to me. I would say that there is a grammar mistake in it.
Fasulye 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6011 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 3 of 12 25 August 2011 at 2:50pm | IP Logged |
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Their are a few people who use the possessive with the gerund. Most of us don't. It's not wrong, any more than it's wrong to say "speak" instead of "sprekken".
Language changes, and anyone who can't accept that isn't worth listening to. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| LanguageSponge Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5766 days ago 1197 posts - 1487 votes Speaks: English*, German, French Studies: Welsh, Russian, Japanese, Slovenian, Greek, Italian | Message 4 of 12 25 August 2011 at 3:44pm | IP Logged |
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I'm quite willing to accept that language changes, of course, I just wanted to know
whether using the possessive was at some point considered correct, or whether it was just my imagination. Question answered; Thanks, Jack 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Spanky Senior Member Canada Joined 5956 days ago 1021 posts - 1714 votes Studies: French | Message 5 of 12 25 August 2011 at 4:33pm | IP Logged |
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Hmmn, interesting question.
I use both, but I have always tended to feel (without having analyzed it) that the second is more correct. Edited by Spanky on 25 August 2011 at 4:33pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Spanky Senior Member Canada Joined 5956 days ago 1021 posts - 1714 votes Studies: French | Message 6 of 12 25 August 2011 at 4:40pm | IP Logged |
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An excerpt from Wikipedia (I was concerned enough, being a card-carrying member of the fussy folks club, to look this up to make sure I have not been blowing it all these years):
"Gerunds preceded by a genitive Because of its noun properties, the genitive (possessive) case is preferred for a noun or pronoun preceding a gerund, which is functioning as the subject of the gerund's verbal element. We enjoyed their [genitive] singing. This usage is preferred in formal writing or speaking. In casual speech, the objective case is sometimes used in place of the possessive: I do not see it making any difference. (I do not see its making any difference is correct.) Using the possessive case with the gerund is applicable in all situations, for instance: He affected my going there. He affected your going there. He affected his/her/its going there. He affected our going there. He affected their going there. He affected Mary's going there. The verbal action of the gerund belongs, in effect, to the subject practising it; thus, the possessive is required to clearly demonstrate that relationship. In some situations, either the possessive or the nominative case may be logical, but with slightly different meanings; but when the nominative case is used the verbal element is a participle, not a gerund:" Edited by Spanky on 25 August 2011 at 4:42pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |
| learnvietnamese Diglot Groupie Singapore yourvietnamese.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4949 days ago 98 posts - 132 votes Speaks: Vietnamese*, EnglishC2 Studies: French, Mandarin | Message 7 of 12 25 August 2011 at 5:04pm | IP Logged |
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I understand it this way:
According to Oxford, we have the construct: worry about (someone)/(something) Now to change the "they feel isolated in school" to "something", which means a noun, we change it to: "their feeling isolated in school" by way of the gerund (Verb_ing) form. So we reach your second option. I'm not sure if the first option is formal or widely used. (Though in terms of semantics, there seems to be no ambiguity at all). Also according to Oxford, there are other ways to express such as: "worry that.." or "it worries (so) that...". So other ways to express the idea are: I worry that they feel isolated in school. It worries me that they feel isolated in school. Thanks for your question. I got a chance to review this as well. Edited by learnvietnamese on 25 August 2011 at 5:05pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5228 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 8 of 12 25 August 2011 at 5:15pm | IP Logged |
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Very interesting. The Wikipedia analysis seems correct to me, though I never thought about it before. Your first option sounds correct, but vulgar. Prefer the second.
1 person has voted this message useful |
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